Preparing for the Cowboys Draft, Part Three: Know Your Team’s Profile
Posted: March 29, 2005 @ 1:16 am
In the days before the 1989 draft, the Dallas Morning News printed a brief article laying out the templates Jimmy Johnson used for drafting defensive players. At first glance, the schemata looked superficial. But mated with a draft book, the templates made the process of weeding out pretenders from serious prospects a quick one.
Johnson profiled the players he wanted thusly:
DTs: had to be at least 290 lbs., preferably more. Their job was to be run stuffers. Tenacity was a must, but speed was not a concern.
DEs: Johnson wanted speed. Consequently, his ends had to run 4.7-4.8 or better. He had success at the University of Miami converting big linebackers to ends, so heavy linebackers who were tall, and had the potential to carry 265 to 275 lbs. were welcome. The poster boy for this project was Tony Tolbert, who played OLB at Texas El-Paso, but bulked up and had a stellar career as the strongside end.
LBs: Johnson wanted these guys to run 4.65 or better. Height was not a priority. Tenacity and durability were. And did I mention they had to be fast? The Cowboys scheme would protect these guys, so their ability to recognize and pursue was foremost.
DBs. Again, speed. Jimmy said he wanted four corners in his secondary, so that all of them could cover. So nobody who ran over 4.55 made the cut, for corners or safeties. The one time he went against type was when he drafted Darren Woodson in ‘92. Woodson had been a linebacker at Arizona State, but he was the fastest linebacker at the ‘92 combine (ran a 4.47 40), and his slight size — for a linebacker — made him a candidate to play safety. (Most conversions go the other way, with big safeties converted to linebackers.) It also didn’t hurt that Woodson could cover anybody, receivers included.
You might be thinking, so what? So you’ve got speed scales for linemen, linebackers and DBs. What can that tell you?
Plenty. Once you start looking at draft books, which usually feature times from the Indianapolis combine, you will find that there are very few linebackers who can run a 4.65. In the 1991 Pro Football Weekly draft guide, for example, 81 linebackers were profiled. Only thirteen of them made the time cut. Dallas drafted two of those — Dixon Edwards and Godfrey Myles.
Depending on the position, the time profiles allowed you to eliminate 80 to 85% of the names in your draft book and zero in on those players most likely to fit the Cowboys scheme. While Jimmy Johnson was doing the drafting, chances were almost 100% that the players he selected would conform to his published profiles.
Another aid was then-PFW editor Joel Buchsbaum’s positional rankings. At the beginning of all his books, he would break each position down into five categories: overpublicized players, underpublicized ones, underachievers, overachievers and sleepers.
In the stellar ‘91 draft, many of the Cowboys’ draft picks fit into the overachiever category (Russell Maryland, Bill Musgrave) or the sleeper category (Erik Williams, Godfrey Myles). This was not by accident. When Sports Illustrated followed Johnson in the week leading up to the ‘91 draft, they found his organization engaged in a process he called “grinding.” Cowboys coaches and scouts would call former coaches and acquaintances of players Dallas was considering. These people were “ground” on character issues: was the player lazy? Did he take plays off? Would he play with an injury? Did he have personal problems the team should be aware of? The Cowboys found that these references were always initially reluctant to criticize their friend or former player, but would tell you the whole truth if you worked them hard enough.
As you might guess, the attention to finding overachievers diminished when Johnson left. One characteristic you will find in early Jerry Jones drafts is a tendency to go after players defined as “boom or bust.” As older fans know, most of these picks went bust.
Finding profiles is not as easy under Bill Parcells. For the 2003 and 2004 drafts, you could get a sense of what Dallas was looking for — on the defensive side of the ball. (His offensive schema are a little different from what the Cowboys drafted before, but there are more similarities than differences on that side of the ball.) The Cowboys were still playing the same scheme Johnson brought to the team in ‘89, so the players sought to fill defensive positions was the same.
However, standards are changing, now that Parcells is moving to a more 4-3/3-4 hybrid scheme. What’s more, Parcells is no friend of the press. You won’t find neat player profiles sitting in the Morning News sports pages, as you did in 1989.
So what’s a draftnik to do? Rely on history, that’s what. When we return for Part Four of this series, we’ll look at the type of players Parcells drafted at his New England and New York stops for insight into his 2005 Cowboys plans.
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i wish jerry would convince bill to use that whole chart and stuff so we can get players who can play ya know? not busts….im really hoping we can make a good draft day out of this one, we need it badly
Jerry convince Bill……….uh hello………it is Bill convincing Jerry who to pick………Bill has a lot better experience than Jerry……….Jimmy Johnson was the draft input that helped us in the early nineties not Jerry……….Bill has found great players in every round of the Draft……and yeah he had a few bust but what coach does not……….
We want Bill buying the groceries……..He is the best shopper on this team. It also keeps him from quitting or leaving like he did when other teams did not listen to his input.
So if Drew Bledsoe is not better than Testaverde you will not hear a peep out of Parcells. If Ferguson and Henry are not the additions to D we need he will keep quiet.
Jimmy Johnson drafting 4 corners. That is the way i have almost always thougth of a secondary………so in our case I would go 3 corners and Roy Williams who is practically a linebacker but similar to Woodson………lets go get Rolle from Miami………or Jones from WVU let Newman and Henry and Rolle compete for the starting two corners…….and whoever does not make the CB plays FS, with Hunter as our Nickel back……….
Add a DE or LB in the draft than can get past the line and pressure the QB and a speedy WR. I think we will like our results.
Quick question, this site is great it has taught me a lot. What exactlyis the differance between free safety, strong safety and corner back?
I know the safties generally play a zone coverage as opposed to man. They help out in coverage and are a last line of defense against deep balls and whatnot. But what really is the differance between the player? I mean what tells you this should guy should play CB not FS, or this guy should ply SS not CB or FS.
If it is relatively easy enough to move a CB over to the FS position, then I agree with Jon, we really could use another quality CB. I mean if we have to have hunter playing FS, and say henry goes down with an injury, then we are right back where we were last year, well not quite, but you see the point. Only have 2-3 guys that can actually cover I think is a mistake.
I know many are saying to go after the pass rushing DE’s and LB’s, and that would be nice. But unless you get to the QB every pass play, if you have a weak secondary, then big plays are gonna happen.
I agree we could use a young WR, but with copper and crayton, and mayeb a mid rounder that we can groom into a good WR, I think we would be okay. So I say with our 2 first rounders we take a CB and either a DE or LB with the pass rush skills. Maybe a tackle for our right side with the second round. And if we can happen to trade down and still do this and get a third rounder, then we can pick up maybe a LB, if we went DE in the first round or a WR. Heck I don’t know I am still learning, let me know what you think.
Also I posted this in the last column, but figured I might as well put it here to. Say we switch to the 3-4, what are we gonna do with guys like glover and ellis, who apparently don’t fit that set, due to size or speed or whatever? I can’t imagine we would pay them all that money to ride the pine. So I was wondering if maybe we would be able to get say Howard and Tebucky Jones from the saints for a combonation of one of those guys and a draft pick, or heck even both of those guys and maybe the saints throw in a draft pick. Again I am not sure how even any of those trades are, which is why I am asking if I am way off base.
It doesn’t even need to be the saints or the 2 guys I meantioned, it could be anybody from any team. I just want to know what will happen to glover and ellis if we switch fronts. I don’t want to see them go to waste.
Rafael, you eluded to 2 strong points at the end of this article:
1. Parcells 3-4/4-3 scheme
2. Profiles on players Parcells likes to draft
In your past few blogs, I have been trying to convey that he likes the DE/OLB tweeners to play the edge rusher (that is OLB in the 3-4, and DE in the 4-3 on passing downs). Justin Tuck (6′5″ 265lbs) and Shawn Merriman (6′5″ 270lbs) have a simular sizes to this type of player Parcells looks for, take a look at Willie McGinest (6′5″ 270lbs) and John Abraham (6′4″ 255lbs,
Rafael, you eluded to 2 strong points at the end of this article:
1. Parcells 3-4/4-3 scheme
2. Profiles on players Parcells likes to draft
In your past few blogs, I have been trying to convey that he likes the DE/OLB tweeners to play the edge rusher (that is OLB in the 3-4, and DE in the 4-3 on passing downs). Justin Tuck (6′5″ 265lbs) and Shawn Merriman (6′5″ 270lbs) have a simular sizes to this type of player Parcells looks for, take a look at Willie McGinest (6′5″ 270lbs) and John Abraham (6′4″ 255lbs,
Rafael, you eluded to 2 strong points at the end of this article:
1. Parcells 3-4/4-3 scheme
2. Profiles on players Parcells likes to draft
In your past few blogs, I have been trying to convey that he likes the DE/OLB tweeners to play the edge rusher (that is OLB in the 3-4, and DE in the 4-3 on passing downs). Justin Tuck (6′5″ 265lbs) and Shawn Merriman (6′5″ 270lbs) have a simular sizes to this type of player Parcells looks for, take a look at Willie McGinest (6′5″ 270lbs) and John Abraham (6′4″ 255lbs, he can add some weight with his frame).
Maybe more important than the profiles of the type of players our team likes to choose, are the needs of the Cowboys. I just can’t see how Cowboy fans are even thinking about drafting a WR with one of our first 3 picks!! The Cowboys have no pass rush, just take the tape out of the Monday Night game against the Eagles, where McNabb scrambles right, then left, then right, then left again, and throws a bomb to a wide open Freddy Mitchell. Again, how is a deep threat WR going to help getting to the QB? There is a good chance that Parcells will use 2, maybe even 3, early picks to sure up the front seven, and give him the flexability he wants. OK, lets look at the wide receivers position. The Cowboys have 3 legitamate starters in Johnson, Glenn, and Morgan. They are interested in aquiring Cory Bradford, which would give them a true 4 wide receiver set. Don’t forget about Jason Witten, his presence in the passing game, and versatility to set out wide and he demands the respect of a defense. Then the Boys also have Copper and Crayton, and Parcells got them some time last year, so you might expect a little more from them this year. Maybe they don’t have one superstar, but the Cowboys are in OK shape there. Now are you content on Lyn Scott starting at safety? Probably not going to find a starting calibur safety on the second day of the draft! With three O-line spots sured up, and hopefully we can say 4 after Riveria rehabs, wouldn’t it be nice to get that 5th guy to sure up a nice offensive line, and have Julious running behind that. And of all fans, Cowboy fans should know by now you need depth on the O-line. Talk about depth, what about backing up Julious Jones. We need a back up! If Key gets hurt, there are 3 or 4 players that could step up. But if JJ gets hurt we need a guy able to shoulder the load. (I like T.A. McClendon on the second day of the draft if he is there) So, there you have it, there are 3 or 4 more pressing needs on this team than WR!!
Mike,
Believe it or not Madden or NCAA football is a great place to learn defense and offense. These games are based on the plays their teams run. Although the teams do not give Electronic Arts the playbook, it does give a player a real look into the defense and offensive formations and the direction of coverage.
Defense and Offense are much more complicated than they look. The old days of lining up and covering a guy are gone. Man Coverage, Zone, different front seven or six packages. All this stuff is shown in these games. So you get a feel for what it is.
Football is a very complex sport now with the Defense being called in from the sideline. Then the Defensive Captain can make a coverage adjustment or call for a blitz depending on the alignment of the Offense. Obviously this is what hurt us last year losing a guy like WOODSON. Nguyen is also a guy that calls for coverage changes. That is why the Cowboys would not want to give up Dat, a Defensive play caller. I guess Roy took over last year……..for Darren………but we struggled in coverage with younger players at Corner and no pass rush.
Eric,
A FS in the first three? I would go for ROLLE and make him a FS or CB, and use Hunter as a Nickel back and compete with our other guys.
DE/LB YES……..one or the other not both………Ellis is a pro bowl DE with another guy to go along with him, we just added Ferguson in the middle to stuff run and get us a few sacks along with Glover…….regardless of 3-4 or 4-3 a Pass Rusher is a need for the first round.
WR…….YES Glenn and Johnson had great years last year. But both had season ending injuries, Glenn in mid season. Is our young group of WR really that good. Why not add a legitimate threat at WIDEOUT to got with Jones, Witten, Glenn, Johnson and say Williams or Williamson……..now that gives the Defense something to lose sleep at night…………Bledsoe can get it to those guys as good or better than Vinny……….
I would not let a guy like Rolle go buy if we can add him. He could be the catalytic defender we need. Remember Atlanta in the early days with Deion………no pass rush but they still got sacks……Coverage sacks……..something we got none of last year……….Newman, Henry, Williams and Rolle………with Hunter as a backup and Nickel back unless he beats out one of those others which I doubt…….plus an injury to Newman or Henry we plug in Hunter or Rolle…….and then Scott starts……..at FS not unless we suffer an injury. If we add a legitmate PASS RUSHER………we can have a lynn scott playing FS………the two Coverage and RUSH are not to be seperated they are eternally LINKED…….if not……….why not rush 11 guys every play…….you gotta have balance…….and the Secondary still could use another Great COVERAGE guy……and ROLLE can COVER and TACKLE.
DE/LB a Tweener or a legitimate END if James, Thornton and Nguyen are going to step up and play the way Parcells expects. James was disappointing last year. Bill said he made gains in the weight room, but it did not transfer to the field. The only reason Coakleys tackles were down was that James was playing his position………..and not to a higher level. Parcells has like 8 guys at LB…….I would rather add a DE………if one exist……….a guy that can get to the QB and is not a liability on the RUN. I think such players exist…………Meriman, Roth, Tuck, James, Cody, and a few others all have the size and speed to play DE. I kinda like Roth. He could still be around in the 2nd round……..
I would not mind seeing………
Rolle……..Williamson……and Roth or Cody……….they both are looking to fall to 2nd round. If we have those three and then add another Offensive tackle with our 4th round…….and FB/RB with one of the 6th…….and maybe another DT…….to mix it up a bit.
Parcells has shown greater skill as the draft goes on. First rounders are full of hype and coverage……..the later rounds are full of value and character guys with a chip on their shoulder.
Use later round picks to add another OT and Maybe a DT to our mix………and while I think most of our picks should be spent on Defense, our offense only scored 18 points a game. Drew Bledsoe alone is not going to change that. If the Cowboys could have averaged 21 points a game how many more games would they have won………..enough to be in the playoffs. A WR that can help our deep threat from anywhere on the field would be nice. Glenn is great, Keyshawn was clutch………Witten is super another Cosby/Noacek in the making…….Jones was great when he played………but give me a deep threat that can get behind a defender on a go route or a fade…….and I will show you an Offense that can put more than 18 points on the board……
We were blown out by the Eagles(once), Green Bay, and Minnesota. Only the Eaglesa nd Green Bay game were truly out of reach. We hung with Minnesota until late in that game and then Moss took over. If Dallas wants to compete with the new rules……a WR is a must have……..if for nothing else than to draw deep coverage so A)Jones gets more yards B) Draw Flags C) the underneath coverage gets weaker………why did Minnesota score so much it was not always Moss……those other guys are open because of the coverage thrown at MOSS or Owens…….
Morgan is a 4th WR at best………maybe a 5th option………i want an everydown WR that can RUN DEEP and Catch…….give the Cowboys that threat and the whole thing upgrades…….
Again……..this depends on the Rivera acquistion being Healthy…….and unlike other bloggers I have not given up on Rogers, Tucker and or Peterman and a player to be named in the 4th round or later……..at Offensive Tackle…….
Zach Thomas is also a good example of an overachieving LB drafted by Johnson. He turned out to be a pretty good player.
I’m sorry - I do not have Salma or Penelope’s measurements for the draft. I will get those later.
Jon,
If it’s the right free safety, why not in the first three picks? You think Baltimore regrets taking Ed Reed in the late first? He’s had as much affect on their D as Woodson had on Dallas’ in his prime.
do we regret taking Roy Williams ahead of Ed Reed?
Jimmy Drafted 4 corners…..excpet Woodson who he converted to Safety from LB……
I agree with the thought process of having 4 guys that can cover. Roy is already a coverage liability……..so we need a third guy that can Cover and Tackle………to me Rolle looks the part.
I do not see an Ed Reed in this draft……..Hunter is possibilty but has not even signed his tender offer to play…….and has voiced concerns…….to me he looks more the part of a Nickel although he was pretty good before injury………
Although this is just my personal opinion………Henry, Rolle, Williams and Newman……….would give us great coverage. Did you watch Rolle at Miami…….he has the size and strength to play FS………..he has the speed to cover…………and he could play CB if Henry or Newman need a breather or got injured……….that would leave Hunter and the other cast of anonymous Defensive Backs on our team to fill in at Nickel and or injuries………which i pray we avoid this year……..
Darren Woodson was an exceptional player…….but Williams can fill his role……..our other Safety needs coverage skills……..so I would draft a big strong Corner……..if the guy can play CB let him and let Newman or Henry compete for FS…….either way we gain better coverage……..Newman, Henry and Williams can all tackle…………and so can Rolle…….
do we regret taking Roy Williams ahead of Ed Reed?
Jimmy Drafted 4 corners…..excpet Woodson who he converted to Safety from LB……
I agree with the thought process of having 4 guys that can cover. Roy is already a coverage liability……..so we need a third guy that can Cover and Tackle………to me Rolle looks the part.
I do not see an Ed Reed in this draft……..Hunter is possibilty but has not even signed his tender offer to play…….and has voiced concerns…….to me he looks more the part of a Nickel although he was pretty good before injury………
Although this is just my personal opinion………Henry, Rolle, Williams and Newman……….would give us great coverage. Did you watch Rolle at Miami…….he has the size and strength to play FS………..he has the speed to cover…………and he could play CB if Henry or Newman need a breather or got injured……….that would leave Hunter and the other cast of anonymous Defensive Backs on our team to fill in at Nickel and or injuries………which i pray we avoid this year……..
Darren Woodson was an exceptional player…….but Williams can fill his role……..our other Safety needs coverage skills……..so I would draft a big strong Corner……..if the guy can play CB let him and let Newman or Henry compete for FS…….either way we gain better coverage……..Newman, Henry and Williams can all tackle…………and so can Rolle…….
Another excellent read, Rafael!
Pat Kirwan had a couple of interesting articles over at nfl.com related to this topic. He was explaining how the obsession with 40 times is not a meaningful tool by itself. Since most players never run 40 yards in a straight line unimpeded in their entire careers, quickness is generally more important than straight line speed.
While the 40 is a good measure of flat-out speed, the 10- and 20-yard splits are better measures of initial burst/quickness, while the 20-yard shuttle and 3-cone drill better measures lateral quickness and agility. Kirwan suggests that a combination of these measurements more accurately reflects a player’s potential playing speed than their 40 time.
Kirwan also describes a system he uses to evaluate power and explosion in defenders. He suggests that adding a players vertical jump, broad jump and bench press reps (@ 225 lbs) is the best measure of a players ability to deliver a blow.
According to Kirwan, any score over 70 (for example: 40 in vertical, 10 ft broad jump and 21 reps on the bench) are considered elite prospects, at least as it relates to their power and explosion. Kirwan also warns to weed out the ‘workout warriors’ and/or athletic freaks. For example, players with a high # of reps on the bench and low vert/broad jump #s should be red flags. After all, there’s a difference between weight room strength and functional playing strength. And while there’s a place for players with springs for legs in the league, that spring doesn’t do ya much good if there’s little muscle to back it up.
I am new to this whole blog thing, but I have to say since 2 weeks ago when I first encountered this website, I have been hooked on it. It is a great cowboy fan website. What I believe needs to be done with this draft is to get a great not good DE/OLB and maybe even 2 DE/OLB prospects. We lost Coakley which is a bigger loss than the Cowboys may be willing to accept and are in dire need of some impact young DE/OLB. Ellis,Glover,and Ferguson are not getting any younger and Singleton isn’t that young either. Our line would be great with a DE like Howard (get the trade over with already) but if it doesn’t happen then DE/OLB Merriman would fill in 2 important needs. He could play DE on passing downs and play linebacker in the 3/4. When he plays the 3/4 our line could be glover(he is not undersized because he plays like a beast)ferguson, and yes leonardo carson(remember he did play next to glover all of last year and he is a pretty big guy) our linebackers could be Nguyen,James/Merriman,Singleton, and Thorton/Shanle/O’neil/Merriman. I think this D looks very good with the addition of Merriman (It would be even better with Howard) . You could then use your # 20 pick to trade out of the round and get an extra pick for next year or in the 2nd and 3rd round which we don’t have or get Demarcus Ware which is another tweener with that # 20 pick. Imagine the sets that we could use with these impact players. Our line and linebackers could benefit from 2 tweeners. Pollack would be a good pickup as well with the #20 pick. If we don’t get Howard with the 2nd round pick we have as a trade, then we could go for Blackstock/Rudd/Tuck/Crowder which are all great football players that can contribute imediately. Someone under the radar that would be a good 2nd round pick is Derek Wake from Penn State. His combine stats are freakish.(45 1/2 vertical leap that’s alot of tipped passes or interceptions for a DE/OLB) Other than his bench press wich was 20 instead of 25 which was what Merriman had, Wake has better stats on everything else.What do ya’ll think.
I also just read in Derek Wake’s profile that he had 7 blocked kicks in 41 games. I do remember reading an article in one of the blogs that we needed someone that can block kicks.
I say get a corner and a wide reciever with the first two picks……keshawn and terry are getting old time to get a young guy.
Good artical Rafael,
I dont think bill subscribes to the “speed Kills”philosophy but I dont think he disagrees with it either. I would like to see his templateposition by position. One of the reasons jimmy was so good is that he had no loyality to anyone; especially if they lost their edge or he could get a trade advantage with that player.
Jesse-
Funny you should say that. It was rumored Charles Haley was gone had Johnson hung around another year. Wonder what that would have done to the team. He was still a force for the last SB win but what would Johnson have replaced him with and what would Dallas have gotten for a player that appeared to dominate the previous year.
I can only wonder.
Jon (and all others looking to get a WR and/or a CB in the 1st round),
OK, here is my point. Let’s pretend that we take Williamson with the 11th pick. Opening day, who are are starting WRs? Keyshawn and Glenn!! Exactly my point. Can we afford to draft a player in that spot that won’t even crack the starting team? No! Again, let’s draft Rolle with the 20th selection, who are are starting corners? Newman and Henry!! We just can’t afford to draft a player with our first two picks with the anticipation that they will have back up rolls. An edge rusher, is a definate starter. So why not draft a player that can start in both a 3-4 and 4-3 set? Players like Merriman and Tuck could play OLB in the 3-4 and DE in the 4-3. Now that makes sense!
There’s no way the Cowboys are drafting a WR with the #11 pick unless that WR is Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams. Those two guys are the cream of the crop so if you can get one, grab him. If not, wait until pick #20 where one of the second tier guys is bound to be available. The only way the Cowboys are using their first pick on a WR other than the top 2 is if they trade down a few spots.
Alan,
I agree with you on going for 2 players up front on the D. Me, I like either Markus Spears, and I believe that Justin Tuck may be the best tweener and looking at most mock drafts he would come off the board late 1st round or early 2nd round, so he would come at a great value.
Williamson is definitely the DEEP THREAT in the DRAFT
6′ 2″ fastest 40 times……and 40 times MATTER for a WR more than any other position except maybe CB
I am for taking the best players available………at these positions
DE-LB / CB-FS / WR / DT / OT / the only two picks in the entire draft I am alotting to the Offense is one pick for a QUALITY WR and one pick for another TACKLE……..i am yet to give up on Rogers, Peterman, Gurode and Tucker……
DE or Pass Rushing bad mamojama LB…….either way we need another player here regardless of 3-4 4-3 set
CB / FS I personally like ROLLE and would spend the money and put him on the field ahead of a WR……..let the best cover guy play CB the other guy plays FS…….hunter is the nickel……scott is on special teams or possibly a safety and Roy moves to linebacker in the nickel set only……lots of teams do that and with Coakley leaving Williams is definitely going to have to improve his coverage…….Coakley could cover RB/ TE and a few WR……..and was really good in that middle zone…….Roy Williams maybe the answer at the position on long passing downs…..and we know he can tackle if it is a draw play…..
personally i think you gotta have 3 or even 4 guys that Can cover recievers…….so again i say Williams, Newman, Henry and Rolle with Hunter as nickel…….
Front four…….. Ellis, Glover, Ferguson, and Merriman(Cody, Roth, Tuck any of the names mentioned in these threads the difference is very minimal……) with Coleman and the rest of our merry men rotating in to give these guys breathers………..that is given a 4-3 set…..we have the LB to run that…….if we are in a 3-4 i go Glover, Ferguson and Ellis as my front three…….with Merriman(Roth or any of the other tweeners Derrick Johnson if available……….
So I allocate our first three picks for DE, CB and WR…….with DE possibly a LB and CB possibly a safety in the 2nd……….personally i put a speedy WR on the team………..Williamson can impact the team immediately in the FLY GO and FADE patterns………
depending on the play called Cowboys could have 3 WR out there……..or two TE or FB RB and only one WR so to say Johnson and Glenn are definitely on the field………..well who knows……..if Williams, Edwards, or Williamson is on the team i am not so sure about that………..besides if it takes longer to develop a WR to run NFL routes……..how long can we wait until Terry and Keyshawn are drawing the new Bush Social Security Plan? Copper and Crayton look like 4th and 5th guys to me………Morgan maybe……..a big maybe he did not show me much…….
Don,
I dont know who would have gotten for Haley, but it may have been another Viking deal. On the other hand it could have been a Ricky Williams Deal. Jimmy wasn’t perfect, but he was damn good. I still favor Landry steady and consistant. We’ll never know.
I heard that Parcells would rather have a Earl Campbell as a running back than anyone else. What has happened to that style of half back? Or was he just a Freak of nature. Another Emmit would be hard to pass up though. I am looking forward to J.Jones running this ENTIRE year.
Jesse
eric,
you definitely raise a good point there with not drafting a WR in the 1st round…i feel we should wait a couple years when either glenn or keyshawn goes down for good and then draft a guy to be that go to guy all the time(and that is takin into account if crayton and/or copper dont step up because if they do then we wouldnt even need one at all) but then again these few years until glenn and KJ are gone could be learning times for crayton and copper and they could get mentored from glenn and KJ every now and then since theyve been here for so long, ya know what i mean? in a few years, those two, or maybe even just one, might be groomed into unstoppable WR’s, who knows. and about the CB not being drafted in the first round i have to disagree a little. if Rolle is still there at 11 and we get him, we could have 3 corners starting (newman, rolle, and henry) along with williams. or rolle might just be able to get groomed into a free safety since he’s got the size right? i think rolle would be a good addition, but only if we address the OLB and DE positions as well in this draft.
Parcells Guy,
When I see Cody play and I hear him in an interview I get the thought of “that is a Parcells Guy”. I loath OU but they put together good players ready to play on opening day.What do you think?
Not the Blog Police,
Jesse
i know most people are all over gettin howard for the other DE spot, but im not so sure anymore. i mean i too find it hard to resist gettin howard for maybe just a 2nd rounder,(or whatever the deal may be) because he could get up there in double digit sacks but that 2nd round pick could be a third pick in the top 40, and could be used on acquiring more youth and talent at DE and at other positions. plus im sure there is a younger and cheaper version of howard in the draft, like Justin tuck, who is second round talent. and there are probably much more that fit howard’s type of mold ya know? thats the reason why the ‘boys are so hesitant on gettin howard until seein how the draft unfolds. i just want a pass rusher to take down mcnabb next year when we play them twice…
just imagine seein mcnabb’s face after so many plays from bein frustrated at gettin sacked constantly, T.O. would have nuthin on us now! lets take donovan down!…
mcnabb drops back, and oh my there goes ellis, BAM right in his face, what a hard blow by ellis, loss of 3 yards….
mcnabb drops back, and oh my god here comes roy williams, mcnabb dodges williams, but glover is there to bring him down…
mcnabb steps back, sees T.O., but has no time cuz new cowboy sensation jason ferguson nails him to the ground for a loss of 5 yards….
mcnabb finally is able to dodge ellis, and has time to look downfield to T.O., its a long throw….BUT DENIED because newman intercepts it and runs it back 84 yards for the TOUCHDOWN!
i know im just havin fun but hey! its a blog and we all gotta get pumped right!?
OK, we spent a 1st rounder 2 years ago, a 3rd rounder last year, and spent a nice portion of Jerry’s $$ on another this year on the free agent market. I don’t think we will be drafting a CB with our very first pick! And its so easy to say we will move Rolle to safety. Tell that to his agent after all these recent cornerbacks got rich via free agency. I see hold out written all over that. Think about this too, changing positions works sometimes and doesn’t work others. Do you really want a to draft a CB that early, and pay him the big bucks, and fail on a position change? Sorry, but I want the sure thing and I want a guy who could start right away! Again, an edge rusher makes a lot more sense to me.
Oh Jon very nice, Rolle, Williamson, Merriman, and Roth or DJ. Wow now that is some draft! I’m with you 100%!! And oh by the way …. give me some of that stuff you are smoking too.
…. jeez we only have 2 first rounders, not 18!!
So, from what i read somebody said a Safety is generally a bit stronger then a CB, is that the main differance. Since its a corners job to cover and tackle, where as a safety is more of a tackle and cover guy?
I know how the game of football is played and I play the video games, thats not what I need to know. Although after reading all these posts, I did think of something and I am not sure if it is possiblle/legal in the NFL. I also don’t even know if its plausable, but humor me.
So would you be allowed to say run 4 d linemen, 4 LB’s, 2 CB’s and 1 S? Again I don’t even know if this would be effective or anything, so if its just plain stupid, just politely let me know.
Man I love this site, and the offseason, all this speculation is great. Just makes you wish we had 3 first rounders and a couple second rounders and then the rest of what we got, then we would be all set. But that would make it too easy.
Oh yeah I almost forgot, who thinks ellis and glover are not the right guys for a 3-4 set, and if so what will we do with them if we switch to that set.
Mike,
The 4-6 defense often creeps up a S into the box, giving a similar look to what you are describing.
P.S. If you have Roy Williams on your team, in essence you are playing with 4 LBs every play! LOL!
Yeah thats kinda why i was thinking about it. I am just wondeirng if its actually legal to do, not with 2 safeties, but with 1 safety and an extra LB.
Oh, is it legal?? Well you can play with 11 LBs if you want, as long as they all line up onside. Any formation on defense is legal as long they are onsides …. I think anyway. Its on the offensive side of the ball, you have to line up with a certain amount of this and that.
Gotcha, thanks.
Mike,
I don’t think you will ever be able to go to a true 3-4 with both Ellis and Glover on this team. So far it looks like what we would like to do is switch it up from time to time. You move Fergusen to nose tackle and then split out possibly glover to de and have one of the other bigger de or dt on the end. That’s what I would do.
Now anybody who has seen anything I have written on the blog knows I’m for drafting a de/olb with first pick, ot with second pick and then wr with third. The reson I would draft OT this high is:
Picture this…..The first game of the year, instead of drafting an OT in any of the top three rounds we draft wr, de, fs. Everybody has been talking about the new combination of Bledsoe and our new speedy wr. They say it is breathtaking. It is the first play for our offense. Bledsoe gets the ball, he goes back to threw….he sees the new speedy WR getting loose and RIGHT BEFORE HE GETS A CHANCE TO THREW THE BALL HE GETS SACKKKKED. And the all the announcers can talk about is the cowboys new they would need to protect Bledsoe but they didn’t get a right tackle something that has been a achilies heal for this team for three stinking years. The season ends we get one game into the playoffs before we are elimanated with the number one defense…again. We won superbowls not mainlybecause of our receivers or Aikman, or even Emmit. But because we had the very best O-line in the league. Now I agree the wr we have are getting older and if we don’t get one in this draft then we get one next year. But we can’t take a chance that Peterman or Tucker or Rogers will work out. Now if there just isn’t enough talent there in the top two rounds that is one thing but if it’s there you have to get it.
Eric,
The offense must have seven men on the line of scrimmage on every play and have both tackles covered.
Eric:
I agree, drafting another DB with a first rounder would be a bad choice, I also don’t see Rolle or Jones escaping from the top ten, making that decision more easy. Change of positions in a rookie is dangerous business, I would be more pleased to see a seasoned guy change positions (like Hunter) than a rookie.
Also, I see a lot of adversity at drafting a wide, guys, we don’t have a deep threat, Clayton seems so tempting for me if we do trade down in one of our first picks and get one in mid 20’s, he’s fast, run good routes and has soft hands, match him with either Glenn or Key on the other side and you’ve got a perfect match.
I don’t see an OL in the first 2 rounds also, part of the problems the Boys had last year in the right side had more to do with Gurode playing and not playing at times and Tucker being what he is (a substitute). Rivera is an upgrade in there, the front office needs to see first if they can cover the RT position from within with Rogers, Flozell or Vollers, if they don’t find a solution, in june 1st there are gonna be some players at the position and Kyle Turley of St. Louis sounds like a solution for me.
i would like to see them focus soley on defense the first 4 picks or so, with te exception of a good rt. once julius came back the offense wasnt that bad alot more balanced, it was the defense that was god awful.
as for howard deal wait till the last minute of the draft and maybe saints crack and accept alot less who knows. cowboys in 05
i dont know much about clayton but if you guys wouldnt mind having him and like his style and stuff, how come hes not a high pick? im just curious
Boon,
How many times did Vinny get sacked?
Julius Jones and the Play Action pass……….are a great fix for the sack you describe………Jones ran the Draw exceptionally well. I would be more worried by what occured in his first game with injury and missing eight games than drafting an OT. Rogers is only in his second year and he is a second round pick……..give him a little time to develop.
DE / LB certainly needs to be addressed……..
WR………got to get some YOUTH and SPEED at this position……….there are DE in the league that can outrun Keyshawn
CB/FS……..I say get Rolle whereever the pick……he is a stud and a playmaker…….I would draft him at 11 myself………than go with either a DE or WR depending on who was on the board…….
OT in the 4th or 5th round……..
use the rest of our picks on DT DE and LBs……..only drafting two offensive players to the O that could not score 18 points a game…….yeah even a good defense can give up 21 points in the pass happy flag friendly NFL rules……..
I am working on the assumption that Rivera is healthy……….personally I think the Cowboys should have gone after WAHLE instead of Rivera he was younger and was a tackle…….it seems easier to get C and G positions out of College Talent than a proven Tackle…….
Barren and Brown would probably not even be first round picks if this draft was deeper in QB and other skilled positions. I would take either of those guys in the 2nd if they fall that far…….but otherwise address DE / WR / and add another talent to our secondary and work him in where ever……….Dallas got burned last year on 3rd and Long so many times it made me sick to my stomach.
I said Merriman or Roth………Williamson might fall to 20 who knows………
Dallas added Henry………Henry and Newman look like two pretty good coverage guys. I have read elsewhere that Rolle might project to safety due to his size and tackling……….and what is wrong with having a guy that can cover at FS……….Scott cant…………Roy aint no coverge guy……..Hunter? We are going to face Terrel Owens and Plexico Burress Twice……….and Eli beat us as a ROOKIE………he aint going to get worse………not really sure who the Deadskins will have at WR and none of them look to cause fear in the hearts of defensive backs……..but Drew Brees will be a good test in our first game………
If the CB position is such a hot commodity with high pay and hard to find………why not take one. Hell if he does not work out at FS we put him at CB and play newman at FS or Henry………..Safety is not a hard position……..either one of these three guys can play it………since when does the player say this is the only position I am playing………….frekin Prima Donnas…………tell that to Parcells………..he will have that player as his waterboy all year………personally I want guys that can cover…….Newman and Henry look the part……..but add Rolle in there and let him compete for a starting CB job or the FS……….how many teams line up with 3 and 4 wide out formations……..somebody has to cover these guys……Rolle is the kind of guy that can make a QB an a WR sorry they threw that pass………..
The only reason why Clayton has slipped is because of his height, at 5-11 he’s the shortest of the top prospects at the position, you don’t have to wonder about his abilities, I remember hearing last year prior the draft rumors that if he came out as a junior to the draft he would have been a top 15 choice, battling Roy Williams and Larry Fitzgerald for the first guy taken of the board.
didn’t Winslow go over those guys? but he is that TE/Wr hybrid
Don’t forget that there are 3 teams drafting ahead of us that need CB help. Redskins,Titans, and possibly Browns. Remember The browns staff has a Defensive minded GM and Scouting Director. Forget about OT. We have one. He just starts on the Left Side. Switch him over to the Right side and put Jacob Rogers over on the left side. That is his natural position. With our 1st pick get Johnson if he falls to us or get Merriman. They could also trade with the Chiefs for the 15th pick and maybe get that 3rd rounder we need. With the 15th pick get Marcus Spears, David Pollack or Erasmus James if Merriman gets taken by the Chiefs(I have heard rumors that they are high on Merriman) then with our 20th pick get a playmaker like Williamson if he is still there and get another “tweener” OLB/DE with our 2nd round pick, unless Merriman drops down to us at 15, in that case I would go with a DE with the 20th pick and get a WR like Roddy White with our 2nd round pick and have the liberty to pick the best player available with that 3rd round pick. Man this is just to much fun. When is the draft again?What ya think?
Maybe we could even make that trade for Howard if we got that 3rd round pick and get williamson with our second and we can talk super bowl!!!!
jon i like your thinking. i mean like u said we will be facing T.O. twice, plaxico twice, and who knows who else they might add ya know? id love to know deep down that we have 3 guys that can cover well(newman, henry, rolle or anotehr top CB in the draft) and im sure newman or henry could pull off FS or someone in that case. henry is pretty big isnt he?
oh and thanks for the info on clayton guys. clayton, williamson, edwards, and williams seem to be top notch guys…but are there any other ones that are under the radar who are really good too????
i was reading up on that………there are two other guys at OU with Talent……a kid from Hampton that might be a late rounder or FA with 4.28 40 Times……….Mathis I think……Parcells was pretty impressed with his work at the combine
here was a list i put in an earlier thread
Wideouts……….
Murphy at Texas A&M
White at UAB
Thorpe at FSU
Gibson and Brown at Georgia
Roby at Indiana
Wiliams at Tulane
Russel at Louisville
Warren and Savoy at UTAH
Bradely at OU
Stovall at FSu
Davis at Marshal………..Randys Alma Mater
or Bragg and Perry from UCLA
or McArthur from CAL…….
the guys from UCLA an CAL are interesting just from a PASS HAPPY offensive minded teams and have the size of Irvin. Unfortunately we would not be having this conversation if Antonio Bryant was not a head case. He had all the skills just not the mindset.
Personall if a guy is under 6′ he better be FAST like Superman FAST…….but if he is 6′2″-5 you can sacrifice a little speed for the hieght and jumping………
About that, Marvin Harrison is 6-0 and 170pounds, and he isn’t a burner, he compensates his size with the best set of hands and the most polished route running in the league, and Clayton is in that mold (5-11 and 180pounds) good set of hands and good route running, and other fact I like about him is that he’s a Hines Ward off the field (great teammate, hard worker and coachable), at least that’s what I’ve read in all those analysis in the net. He’s gonna make people feel sorry for not drafting him early, remember that he played with White as QB and he’s not known as a strong armed QB.
Alan:
There’s other team drafting earlier than the Cowboys with the need of CB help, the Cards, they also need a RB, and they are trying to trade for Henry, if they have success at it, they will add a corner with their 1st rounder.
you really think Denny Green is done drafting on the offensive side of the ball……..he aint never been defensive minded………he is stacking his O the way he built those 35 point avg 500 yards a game Minnesota offensives……….
if Rolle is there at 11 we got put that guy in the secondary……..
Whoa! Get the facts right before you write, last year Green drafted Larry Fitzgerald in the 1st round, then drafted in the 2nd and 3rd Dansby and Dockett (LB and DT), then in the 5th drafted a DE. 3 out of 5 sounds pretty defensive for me. Green is smart, he knows that he needs a corner, and he’s gonna draft one, be it in 1st round or second, that just depends in if he gets the RB he needs in FA or not.
i thought we were talking about the first round here………
maybe they need to look at idrees bashir, hes a good safety and then we can look for another safety later in the draft. otherwise unless they can get 1 of the top 2 receivers all defense please. offense wins games but defense wins super bowls.
an offense that averages 18 points winning super bowls……only the ravens perhaps……..against a not so great Giants team…….
WR definitely……….an Offensive Tackle maybe in later rounds………the Rest Defense………DE/ LB/ DT/ CB-FS
true but the early 90’s the boys defense was lights out. patriots d very good, eagles very good. the colts have no d and cant win theres a reason for that same with the chiefs. to me defense is way more important, and i think with playaction with julius drew will have a great year barring injuries.
yeah the play action will definitely help……..a healthy JJ for the entire year……..who knows we might have a 1800 yard guy…….but another WR to add to that play action……..that team of the 90s also had guys named Aikman, Irvin, Emmit, Noacek, Johson, and Harper……….other than Witten and Jones………we are a huge drop off at every other position……
The Defense of the Cowboys was extremely talented in the 90s and yes it was a huge part of the Super Bowl runs………and the RAMS would be unbeatable if they would hire a Buddy Ryan like to give them a Defense…….and the other teams you mentioned……you are wright……….Irony Bill Billick ravens coach lives and dies by his Defense…….a former offensive coordinator……….Tony Dungy the Defensive Master behind the Bucs success now relys on the arm of Peyton Manning…………that is truly ironic……
I agree Offense Sells seats and Defense wins Super Bowls………but a WR is a necessity.
most deff. if we can get mike williams or troy i say hellz yah but otherwise i dont want to see a wasted pick like so many we have wasted in the last few years….
Jon,
You said, “The Defense of the Cowboys was extremely talented in the 90s.”
Yeah and go take a look at their starting secondary in the first two years!! Our group now has a ton more talent, yet you say we should neglect our need for a pass rush and draft Rolle with the 11th selection. Then neglect our need for a pass rush again with the 20th pick and draft a WR that won’t even start unless an injury occurs.
Mike,
You are right defense wins, and I am sure you will agree that this D sorely needs a pass rush. I’m with you on drafting D, but even if 1 of the top 2 WR are there. I say trade down if Edwards or Williams is there. You would have to figure that with one of them there the value of that pick goes up. I say try to pick up an extra pick or two, but when Dallas does select their two players make it a DE/OLB tweener and a big guy on the D-line. Spears and Tuck would make me happy. If not, someone in that mold.
Eric……a thread to some body else who doubts Rolle but hey it will work for you too…..
Tell me the last time we drafted a DE that worked out…………Greg Ellis.
Tell me how many we have drafted that SUCKED? The list is a mile long. Example……..we drafted Ekuban………Same year Falcons get Kerney…….he has 69 pro sacks…….he went 10 picks after Ekuban…….the year before we got Ellis in the first round……….a guy named Leonard Little would go 2 ROUNDS LATER…….now i like Ellis great character guy……..my point is there was still a talented DE in the 3rd…….Dwight Freeney and Julius Peppers are both extremely Talented football players and look like Sackmasters….they were first rounders…..but there are many boom or bust first round DE….Pittman, Carver, hech we found Tony Tolbert in the 4th ROUND…..it is not just the Cowboys……the names of DEs drafted in the First is almost as bad as Quarterbacks………Draft Rolle…..Trade 20 to Jets for Abraham……….and get a WR at 42………the use the rest of our picks on DE, LB and DT……Shante Carver was taken with our First Pick and somebody drafted Demetrius Underwood……i think Dennis Green and the Vikings if I remember correct…….we would eventually have both on our team……neither was worth a First Round Pick………..an older Spellman beat out most of our draft picks…….another FA acquistion
I am all for a DE, LB, DT and a CB to play the FS. Darren Woodson has stated the Cowboys need a safety that can offer Newman and Henry some help. Williams is basically replacing Woodson.
Uh…….were you referring to Super Bowl MVP Larry Brown………uh not Super Bowl MVP Charles Haley…….or Ken Norton……..or Emmit Smith…….but Larry Brown………hey he was good when he was with the Cowboys. James Washington was pretty good. Interceptions………helped a lot in that Super Bowl…..we could use the Larry Brown that played for the Dallas Cowboys……not the guy the raiders paid…….you did not name the Rookie Kevin Smith…….that was STARTING by mid season……….and played in the Super Bowls……..Brown and Smith were the youngest starting Corners in the NFL and that worked out pretty good……..meanwhile our DEs were largely nameless til we got Haley from SF……..and Tolbert in the 4th ROUND……..
My argument for Rolle is the VALUE of a CB is higher and an easire transition than a DE. Rolle has the size and strength to play FS. He can and will play Special Teams or return kicks……Parcells kind of a guy.
Now………if we take Rolle, then Williamson at 20 if he last that long….after the first three WR the list gets anonymous and probably is as good in the 4th as in the 3rd………so get a LB at 20 if Williamson is not available…….. and perhaps Cody from OU…is on the board at 42…..then in the 4th.
Rolle is an NFL CB that has the size and skill to play CB or FS. From a Value that is higher VALUE than anything less than a 12 sack DE. Tell me which guy in this draft is going to be a 12 sack DE next year………my guess……….is as good as yours……..Spears maybe…….maybe not………James? Who knows…….is Cody in the second round that far from Spears in the first? Glover, Ellis and Ferguson……..a few other guys in the draft………..hopefully Thornton, Singleton, Nguyen, James, Shanle and the rest of the suspects at LB can step up their play…….
I personally think the secondary could still use an upgrade………Rolle could step on the field and START on any NFL team at CB or FS. Tell me which DE in the draft offers you that much playing time and that much impact NEXT YEAR?
Jason Taylor was a third round pick…….he is a double digit sack guy every year…….Jason Ferguson the newly Rich Mr. Ferguson was 6th rounder……..
i know everyone seems hell bent on merriman but idk alot of experts say hes raw and a few years away from being a everyday starter. i would like to see us get cody or spears alot of people are saying merriman will be around at 20 but id like to see them trade that 20 for a later 1st rounder and a second or third stock pile picks and let the tuna do his thang. imagine that dline cody or spears feguson glover ellis damn!!!
if rolle could play safety then hell yah we need that to, roy could play more in the box and thatd help out immensly. im starting to like that idea shut down the pass, we didnt do that bad against the run compared to the pass, so another fs,cb would be cool if we could get howard then get rolle with 11, then troy or clayton with the 20. then adam terry o tackle with the second… something like that
a CB converted to FS……..like ROLLE would be less of a gamble than a DE…….that we have struggled to Draft…….
Jon,
If we draft Rolle and then Williamson, we will be sitting with another pick in the top 15 next year, and there will be another “Rolle”, then too. Too good to pass up, so let’s draft him too. Heck let’s use our next 5-6 first rounders on DBs and WRs, because there is always that guy that’s just too good to pass up. Just like Steven Jackson last year!!! That’s is a loosing philosophy! Sorry to be the one to tell ya that. If Rolle is as good as you think, and he is there at 11, then use the value of that pick to your advantage and trade down. Look what Parcells did last year!! This is why we have two 1st rounders this year!! (we also have Julius Jones!) Why was JJ so successful drafting? He had so so many selections. Look at how many early round busts he drafted, but also how much he got out of later round selections. The idea is to get other teams to think, “this guy is just way too good to pass on”, and make a trade with the team that is overvaluing your position. I am glad Parcells has the right idea, and he is excellent at building the foundation of a Champion.
eric i totally agree with you
riddle me this batman?
We had one of the best statistical defenses and were a playoff contender………in Parcells first year. Then we go to 6-10………what changed?
Mario Edwards and Darren Woodson………the secondary SUCKED……..Roy Williams can fill Darren’s shoes……..hard hitter….great against the run………but we need another guy that can cover………perhaps drafting Rolle sounds bad to you……..but i do not see many DEs at 11 that are going to be much better than……….say……..Cody at 42 or Merriman at 20 or any of the guys we get in the later rounds……..the Cowboys Secondary was the biggest glaring loss of talent last year and it showed……..
Yeah we made the playoffs, and what happened? Jake Delholmme passed the ball all over our “great” secondary.
add ROLLE and that will not happen……….
along with guys like Williamson for a deep threat and Cody for pass rush……not to mention our 4th 5th and 6th rounders……..where Parcells has found guys like Jason Ferguson and Troy Brown in the past……..
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