Draft Combine Crumbs
Posted: February 26, 2006 @ 10:35 pm
Cowboys-related news on a Sunday evening:
– CBA or no CBA?
Conflicting reports are emerging about the status of collective bargaining agreement negotiations. NFLPA President Gene Upshaw remains steadfast in his belief that negotations are stalled. However, Browns GM Phil Savage has apparently heard rumors that free agency might in fact be delayed one to two weeks so an agreement can be hammered out. (scroll down) The Washington Post quotes anonymous league sources who appear optimistic a deal will be reached soon.
A smile at Washington’s expense?:
The Post also reports that QB Patrick Ramsey and his agent Jimmy Sexton have been given permission to work out a trade.
The Ranch Reports front page hints that Sexton has spoken with the Cowboys about Ramsey. Sexton is Bill Parcells’ agent. The Post says only that a “suitable partner” for Washington has not been found.
I’ll bet.
– Dallas has interviewed Georgia Tech LB Gerris Wilkinson, Miami CB Kelly Jennings and N.C. State DE/OLB Manny Lawson.
– Jerry Jones dropped some hints about the Cowboys’ offseason direction in a DMN interview Among them:
– He claims he “probably won’t go after the top paid [OL] in free agency.” Jones cites cost as a factor;
– the Cowboys will not force the issue at the WR position. Dallas will not pick a receiver just for the sake of getting younger;
– the Cowboys will sign an “experienced” kicker but not one of the priciest ones. Hello Matt Bryant? Ryan Longwell?
– the team will put off addressing La’Roi Glover’s situation “until a better day.” Make of that what you will.
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that Glover statement is probably to show people that they wont release him and that if they want him they better trade.
Also following the combine I see several QBs who have very good upside. Although QB may not be a large need adding a guy like Jacobs in the second, mcneal in the 4/5th, Meyer(Romo-ish) in the 6th, or even Vick in the 7th or as an udfa.
if he really means that about not going after “top pail” (new expression?) FA’s, so much for all our speculation here………And, how disappointed/upset would you be if we don’t sign at least one top FA?
Matt,
Vick looked like crap!! Why even go there? The 3 guys on our team are far better than him.
I was watching some of the combine on NFL Network. My observations were:
#1. Chad Jackson was easily the best WR doing drills. He was explosive and caught the ball away from his body with his hands. He ran the fastest 40 at 4.32, but also has excellent size. * Sinorice Moss just ran the 40 (4.37) & Santonio Holmes did not participate.
#2. While the announcers were filling our ears with “Cutler” “Cutler” “Cutler” … I thought Brody Croyel threw better passes than the Vanderbilt QB during passing drills. Croyel’s intermediate outs were right on the mark, on the receiver’s outside shoulder towards the sidelines. Many scouts believe that the 10-15 yard out is the most important throw to demonstrate you can make. .. If you could imagine CBs covering the patterns, Croyel threw many passes to spots only were his WRs would be able to make a play.
#3. While the combine itself may be “overrated”, I think that player’s bad tendancies are noticable in doing some of the combine’s drills. A group of WRs let a bunch of balls hit their bodies during the gauntlet. Not so good QBs were erraticly inaccurate (cough cough Marcus Vick). Some players (Sinorice Moss and Jackson) were noticably more fluid and explosive than others.
#4. I heard some news on a player I already liked. Brandon Williams was reported as a good blocker and a really tough player.
larry,
pardon the typo. It’s “top paid.” To me, that rules out Jon Runyan.
Larry,
Maybe Jerry blowing some smoke and not showing his hand… Just a thought.
Rafael:
To me that statement also says that no Bentley and I think that that isn’t smoke. Last year he said that he was going to be aggressive from the beginning, he wasn’t lying. Now he says that and I’m figuring that he will sign a stop gap RT and some holes (K, FB, ILB, etc.).
The Glover statement sounds as if they’re willing to absorve the 1.5M bonus he’s scheduled to earn March 3 just to trade him for what he’s worth and he may be worthy of that 300 points tag you mentioned.
Reportedly, the Cowboys have also shown interest in Tamba Hali, DE, Penn State. Hali is around 6′2, 265.
Hali might be ranked higher than either Carpenter or Lawson and might slip to #18. So the big question is, can he stand up and play outside in the 3-4? I haven’t seen him play at all.
Eric R,
Have you read the Mac Engel version of the Parcells interview?
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/football/13967558.htm
Here is the portion that deals with Ellis:
The point of interest is the last sentence. To me, it indicates that the Cowboys might be willing to try Ellis at SOLB.
To me, Jones’ comments about Glover indicate that they are willing to absorb his contract until a new CBA is signed, and then try to work out a new contract, or cut him if that fails.
That would not preclude a trade at any time, however.
Mr. Bill,
All true. But if a new CBA is worked out and the cap jumps over $100 million, there’s no reason to move him, unless you simply want a better fit with your scheme. Dallas can afford him now, if I’m reading the numbers right.
Anyone here the cap will be set at 95mil ?
That`s what I read on MSN.
Sorry for all the spelling errors. I`m trying to blog @ work & my boss keeps walking by.
If it is set @ 95 mil it will definitely give us plenty of room to work.
Jesse,
I’ve heard $92 to 95 M without a new CBA but $104 to $105 with one.
That’s why Washington is so desperate to see a new one signed.
Mr. Bill,
Hey I am NOT going there again!!! LOL … But nice article.
Most interesting to me is the Kevin Burnett comment. I think Burnett is a stud if he can get 100% healthy. But if Dallas can posibly get another (late) 2nd or (early) 3rd, then Kai Parham would have to be on their radar. Parham is a big athletic LB that would fit the 3-4. To go along with Rafael’s piece, Lawson and Wilkinson could be ILB options as well. You have to love Lawson’s fluidness and ability to avoid blocks.
Raf,
I don’t think a new CBA has an effect on the 2006 cap. 2006 is part of the current CBA. A new one would actually be an extension-2007 and beyond. The 110 mil number you must have seen would be a cap number for 2007 if a new CBA goes into effect. It went up so much b/c whoever gave that number assumed additional revenue sharing.
Thanks for explaining, Raf-but how do you hit a ‘l’ instead of a ‘d’?
Vernon Davis just ran a 4.32 forty at the combine. That number is lower than all the WRs
And I meant to also say he won’t be around at 18.
Brodrick Bunkley - DT from FSU - is a FREAK.
He just ran a 4.99 and benched 44 reps!!! that’s way, way, way off the charts.
Davis’ official 40 time was 4.38. The same time as Sinorice Moss.
Lets just say that he won’t make it to 18……
joey2zs,
Did you see Kulda from Ohio St?Bunkley is 306 lbs, Mike Kudla is 6-1 and 265 lbs and he did 45 reps. Thats wayyy off the charts, and Carpenter and Hawk said if he didnt break 50 reps they would be dissapointed.
Has anyone seen the DE from Cal Poly SLU? Wooooo WEEEEEEE! That kid is just a pure football player. Chris Gocong - 6′3″ 265lbs. He had 43 sacks in the last 2 years, and is having a great combine. He’s a DE that will obviously be a 3-4 OLB in the pros. He and Bunkley are the most impressive guys in the DT group - by 100 miles. REmember his name, Chris Gocong. He’s going to be BIG TIME in the NFL. Think Dwight Freeney or Terrell Suggs.
DE/OLB Parys Haralson from Tennessee has nice feet.
Jay Cutler had more bench reps than Nick Mangold. Sheeesh!
Vernon Davis is being interviewed on NFL network right now. he may not be human. He’s the perfect athlete.
Eric R:
If we got Lawson I see no possible way he would be used at ILB. He’s a DE and an edge pass rusher…that says to me he’s a 3-4 OLB all the way. A guy like Carpenter or Greenway, a traditional LB, I could see them being used as either OLB or ILB, although both project more as OLB’s in either a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme. 3-4 ILB’s are more like traditional 4-3 LB’s who are used to playing gaps and covering/stuffing RB’s, etc. Lawson and other DE hybrids are put in those 3-4 OLB roles precisely because they can rush the passer from the edge and take on OT’s.
I do like Lawson a whole lot and I believe his draft stock is rising fast. I’ll catch up on this after the combine, but I am starting to rethink the 1st round because of the relationship between the tweeners and the traditional LB’s.
Vernon Davis has probably put himself well into the Top 10, maybe higher now. I was afraid this would happen, but I kind of thought it was inevitable. With no true 1st round grade WR’s, and the popularity of TE’s now, there’s no way he lasts past the 10 pick.
Broderick Bunkley looks great. He looked great at the Senior Bowl too. He’s probably a little too light to play 3-4 NT, but he’ll be good in a 4-3 for some team out there.
Mangold is an absolute monster. I wish there was some way to trade down a few slots to take him and then pick up a tweener somewhere later.
Mr. Bill:
I saw an interview with Tamba Hali in the Senior Bowl postgame (a game in which he completely dominated, by far the best of all the DE’s in the game, 2 sacks as I recall) and he seemed quite vocal about playing DE in a 4-3 scheme. Then, I read this morning that he reiterated that point in interviews this weekend, telling scouts that he believes he would perform better in that scheme than as a 3-4 OLB, but “would play where ever he was asked to play”. That sounds kind of half-hearted to me about the OLB thing. It’s especially telling that he would say this to scouts when agents usually coach their players up to be vague and say they will play anywhere they can as long as they get to be in the NFL. If he’s willing to exclude himself from playing a position by the statements he’s made and potentially cost himself money, that tells me he’s not worth a draft pick to play OLB if he won’t be happy playing there, no matter how good a player he is.
4.38! For a TE? Good gracious.
Yes, forget 18. I don’t know if he’ll
last past 8 now. Though who would take him? The QBs are moving up. Reggie Bush still goes high. Ferguson and Mario Williams go. That’s six. Does Davis wind up in Oakland at seven? Or go to Buffalo at eight? Sheesh. Davis and Randy Moss, with Jerry Porter as a “complementary” receiver?
Al Davis had Raymond Chester, one of the first speed TEs. He turned Billy Cannon Jr. from a RB into a TE in the ’60s. Todd Christensen was a FB for Dallas and Oakland made him a speed TE. Al the Hegemon spent a top ten pick years ago on Ricky Dudley, who was going to be the next Kellen Winslow but went bust. He loves TEs as much as Parcells, thought Al loves fast ones.
Vernon Davis seems tailor-made for the Raiders.
And Oakland’s biggest need is at LB, the biggest strenght of this Draft, that’s a note that I’ll take to the mock I’m elaborating.
Chandus, Here’s my updated mock, which makes sense until I hit Miami:
1-4 Texans get Bush, Jets, Saints and Titans get the three QBs in some order;
5. Packers — Mario Williams; need a rusher;
6. S.F. — They luck into D’Brickashaw Ferguson;
7. Raiders — Vernon Davis, Al Davis can’t pass up speed;
8. Bill — N’gata, need a NT badly;
9. Lions — Michael Huff;
10. Cards — LenDale White;
11. Rams — A.J. Hawk;
12. Browns — Winston Justice; the OT they’ve needed for years;
13. Baltimore — Jimmy Williams;
14. Eagles — Chad Greenway;
15. Falcons — Ko Simpson;
16. Miami — Marcus McNeill;
17. Vikings — D’Angelo Williams;
The fuzziest projections are Baltimore and Atlanta.
And what does Dallas do here? I think they consider trading down a few places, since the players they seem to like the most (Watson and perhaps Carpenter) seem to be minor reaches here.
Raf and Chandus,
Al Davis also has 4 games each year playing against either Gonzo and Gates. Sterling Sharpe abused him when he played in Denver, and crushed them in the playoffs when he played in Baltimore. … Maybe a little more motivation!
Yeah, and after watching Davis I waas just thinking he reminds me a LOT of Shannon Sharpe. Technically a WR in a TE body.
WOW!!!! Manny Lawson ran a 4.41 and a 4.45!!
More on this subject later.
Rafael,
I believe you meant Billy Cannon Sr.
Junior was a whole ‘nother animal, who will live forever in Cowboys draft infamy.
Manny Lawson’s 4.41 was by far the fastest of all the DL’s. The next closest time was in the 4.6’s.
That is highly impressive for a 6′5″, 245 pound DE. Not as impressive as Vernon Davis, but nobody has impressed me as much as Davis. I agree Rafael, Davis looks like he has Raiders written all over him.
Interesting to note that Fasano looks like a 3rd Rounder after his lackluster Combine.
Mr. Bill,
I was. I should have only said Billy Cannon, since dad was the only one to play pro ball.
Chandus:
I agree. I think he hurt himself a bit by not running the 40 with the other guys and waiting until Pro Day. He also looked pretty clunky in the gauntlet drill.
It was funny to hear the weight room coach calling him ‘Bavaro’ when he was doing his 225 reps on the bench. He actually called him “Paisan” when he first sat down…lol.
Chris Gocong looks like a good prospect, but comparing him to Dwight Freeney is crazy. Hes no where near that level. No way you could say hes a top 5 DE or OLB. I’d love to see the Boys pick him up late, maybe the 5th round. Haralson looked real good too, another possibility for the Boys, probably in round 3.
A guy who has to be an option at 18 is now Chad Jackson. Jackson is 6-1 201 lbs and amazingly ran the 40 in sub 4.3 time on some watches (4.32 officially). The WR from Florida also recorded the top shuttle time and was in the top 5 in the 3 cone drill. Watching highlights of Ohio State games, I thought Santonio Holmes cradled the ball a lot and let the ball get to his body too much. Hoilmes is regarded as the top WR prospect, but Jackson’s workout has had to have opened eyes. Jackson did an excellent job at catching the ball with his hands and was visibly more explosive than the other WRs. .. I think he is the top WR, and should be considered if he is still there at 18.
Chris Gocong stats make the guy a certain target in the 2nd and 3rd Round, I mean 23.5 and 17.5 sacks and 31 and 21.5 tackles for losses in the last 2 years even if it’s in Div. I-AA count for something. He should be shelved right with McClover, Spencer Havner, Kai Parham, Roger McIntosh, Gerris Wilkinson and Frostee Rucker as OLB prospects in Rounds 2-3.
EricR:
I’m not so sure about Chad Jackson, he certainly looks explosive with those numbers, but how much of those numbers come from training like a freak in the offseason? We don’t have a lot of material of him being explosive in his last year in College as he had 88 receptions for 900 yards (10.2 avg.) with a long reception of 80 yards, take that reception out and he has 87 for 820 yards (9.4).
Everyone was expecting Jackson to be under the spotlight in Indianapolis and look real good, but still they didn’t backed off their thoughts of him being a late 1st Rounder, I guess that the few evidences of him being a true playmaker are the ones that take precedent.
I agree with all the guys you listed although I think a couple like McIntosh, Wilkinson, and maybe Parham are really ILB’s. Gocong looks solid, McClover is a raw pass rusher with potential, I havent seen much of Havner, but he sounds good, Parham is the best of those IMO, McIntosh has some potential and comes from a really good school, Rucker is raw too, and Wilkinson could be a real steal in the draft.
Eric R,
I agree. Chad Jackson has to at least be considered, and unless Holmes wows scouts at his Pro Day Jackson is IMO the #1 reciever out there. Although I dont think the Cowboys would take him, we have bigger needs and JJ said we won’t go get a WR just to get younger at the position.
Raf,
So you see Hawk falling all the way to #11? He hasnt worked out yet and could easily get back to at least #6. I think Vince Young has really hurt himself lately and now that all the hype is gone I could see him fall before AJ Hawk. I could also really really see SF taking Davis so Alex Smith has a great target to throw to. I think the Raiders taking Davis would be a mistake, they have all the WR’s in the world and another great one won’t matter as much as a guy like Ngata or Hawk on D. But then again, its Al Davis.
Come on. The raiders already have a freaky athlete at TE - Randal Williams.
Ha!
Just some things of note:
Cowboys seem really interested in Wimbley. With the Boys interviewing Lawson, Wilkinson, Scott, and players like that, it seems like we are going to trade down, maybe get a 4th rounder back.
LeKevin Smith seems like a good pickup at NT. If we can get a 4th rounder I would love to take him.
Interesting to see the Boys showing interest in Kelly Jennings, CB from Miami Fl. He can fly and is a good cover corner, but arent we stacked there?
Also, it seems like we are looking at mid-late round TE’s. The Boys like Charles Davis from Purdue, anybody get a chance to see him today?
Also, doesnt it seem odd that after a rumor breaks that Vince Young scored a 6, they come out saying that the test was scored wrong, yet instead of just correcting the score they let him do it again and he scored a 16. Hm….
Lou C.,
If Davis goes up somebody has to come down. Young is possible but the word today is that his Wonderlick score was in fact 16 and not 6. He’s a QB and he’s a much better prospect than Aaron Rogers, so I don’t see him falling much, if at all.
I also can’t see D’Brickashaw Ferguson falling either. Yes, the 49ers were my other candidate to select Davis, but will he be ranked higher than Ferguson simply on the basis on a 40 time at the Combine?
Maybe, and the Niners do need targets for Alex Smith, but they also need somebody to block for him. I think when all is said and done Ferguson remains a higher rated player than Davis.
So that gets to Hawk, who by position is the most likely to fall. Remember how Derrick Johnson was a sure top 10 last year and how Dallas would be lucky to get him at 11, and then he falls to what, 15 or 16 and K.C.?
4-3 OLBs who are not sure bets to record double digit sacks fall, no matter how good they are.
A few thoughts:
1) Jackson at Florida put up “deep threat” numbers his junior year. Last year, under a new offense, he played the possession receiver role. He is now a mid-first round prospect. I don’t think Dallas goes there as Parcells is very much against first round receivers, but someone will take a chance on him. The Eagles perhaps?
2) Manny Lawson ran a 4.41? What did Ware run last year? About the same thing, wasnt it? We may have our #18 selection….. Or at least another viable option at 18….
3) Not only did Vernon Davis run a 4.38, he also had a 42 inch vertical (Pope #2 at 37.5 inches), 10-8 broad jump (Pope and Lewis at 9-10), and 33 reps on the bench. A freak of nature.
lou c,
Bigger needs for sure, but you need a plan A, B, C, and probably D this year in the draft.
I think Ware ran a 4.51 in the 40 last year, and we were amazed at that number. Now that makes 4.41 really impressive, and I think if we want Lawson we have to take him at 18, I think he will get picked up if we try to trade down.
When are the line backers working out. If Carpenter runs a 4.5 at 250 lbs we will be lucky if Cleveland does’t grab him or Lawson. Lawson is better against the run than alot of people gave him credit for. What was his vertical I bet he comes close to the record.
Here is a question to ponder. Who in this draft if worth moving up for? Is there any trade partners who would take Cowboys first and Glover allowing Dallas to get the premiere player they covet? Is there a player worth that?
Ngata? A.J. Hawk? Vernon Davis? D Brickshaw Fergusan? What if Vince Young continues to fall?
What do you guys think? If we stay at 18, I like in no order Manny Lawson, Bobby Carpenter, Gabe Watson, Chad Jackson.
With the rate players are moving up the draft lists, it is going to get mighty crowded up their. I haven’t said this before because I just figured D’Brick would go real early, but could he fall within reach of a trade. He would be the only OL that I would draft and probably the only player other than Carpenter I would suggest if we got a chance.
TM:
LB’s work tomorrow, but as far as I know, Carpenter won’t be working out as he appears to be medically limited by at least another week.
Out of that I can elaborate that his ankle shouldn’t be bothering him anymore, it’s just that he hasn’t reached a conditioning level in which he would prefer to work out.
Ridgelake & lou c:
I looked up Ware’s 40 time becuase I was curious after Lawson put up the 4.41 and then a 4.45 on his 2nd dash.
I found conflicting reports. One said he ran a 4.65 on a statistical table and the other was written into a combine story and that said he ran a 4.56, Could it be a typo? I dunno. I’m inclined to believe the 4.56 number, personally.
A few other notes of interest regarding this is that both men were approximately the same size, with Lawson being about an inch taller than Ware. The other interesting point is that Ware chose to do his workouts with the LB’s last year. This year Lawson (for what reason I’m not sure) chose to workout with the DL’s. Perhaps that’s just where they stuck him, and since they do pretty much all the same drills it doesn’t matter too much in the end. I’ll be interested to find out how Lawson does in the OLB drills they give the tweeners. I got to see the other group go, but not he and Wimbley’s.
One more interesting point that I hadn’t heard before. Lawson played LB on defense his whole football career and only switched to DE at NC State because he suddenly put on weight and the coaches thought he could help them more at DE. I know playing LB so long ago doesn’t make that big of a deal to the NFL, but it shows that he has at least some experience playing from a two-point stance.
Linebackers and DB’s workout tomorrow at the Combine. I’m going to be watching very carefully tomorrow to see how Greenway and Carpenter perform. I expect they will both have an outstanding showing.
Chandus:
Really? Carpenter’s not ready to workout? I hope that he does, but if he’s not ready then I guess he’ll have to wait until Pro Day. Bums me out if this is true, because I was wanting to see how he’s moving with the ankle thing behind him. Greenway better workout!!
Carpenter was measured but won’t run until Ohio St.’s Pro Day.
I read in the Boston Herald this morning that Carpenter has been working out with Mike Vrabel. They’re the same type player.
Yeah, it is too bad he couldn’t run. Especially for him. The track at Indy looks super fast.
Oh well. Better not to run if he’s not ready. Kind of like the Senior Bowl, however much he might drop is probably less than if he showed poorly because of not being 100% ready. With 1st round money potentially on the line there is no reason to take the risk.
I know what you mean about that Vrabel thing, Rafael. They are a very similar type of player.
Does anyone know if he worked out in the weight room drills?
Check this out:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9270956
Look at Lawson and Davis on top of all the drills for their respective groups. Lawson has clearly raised his stock more than anyone this “offseason”. Good Senior Bowl and great workout!! .. Kamerion Wimbley and (Rafael’s guy) Garrett Mills only helped themselves. .. Not on paper though Vernon Davis dropped a few passes in other drills.
With the extra weight he put on, which was just about the only knock on him, Ferguson will be the first one of the regular picks after the top QB’s and Bush. In other words, no lower then 5.
Mario Williams is a specimen too. Just looking at that guy and watching him move…I PROMISE you he will be a Pro Bowler within a year in this league. He’s in a whole other league than any DL in this draft, even more impressive to me than Ngata, although they are different types of DL’s. Whatever Top 5 team that passes on him is either crazy or more desperate for help elsewhere.
lawson got over shadowed by super mario.Charleton Keith is a sleeper he played great at kansas.
David Thomas from UT would also make a great TE/H Back in the third.
patrick ramsey? would he be 3rd or 4th on our depth chart? he ain’t the future at QB for the Dallas Cowboys. Funny Parcells and Gibbs have both shown no patience for developing or waiting on theQB to learn the offense. Instead they both went with throwoff QBs that they both felt comfortable with…..the only difference is Washington paid a lot more for theirs.
I thought Lawson would test very well, but this kills me. He’s a freak of nature. He would have been a great fit in Dallas but I just don’t think he’s going to be there at 18 anymore.
Using the mock draft above, I think we’re going to see him go ahead of Michael Huff, LenDale White, Winston Justice, Ko Simpson, Marcus McNeill, and D’Angelo Williams. They’re all very nice players, but none are unique (save for maybe D’Angelo). Lawson’s an unusual prospect.
Before we anoint Manny Lawson as this pre-season’s LT, I think it’s worth noting that he’s only 245 lbs. Apparently he’s not too good at stopping the run, or wrapping up. The reason his combine is off the charts is because he’s just an outstanding athlete, and was a track star at NC State too.
I don’t think he’s big enough. DeMarcus Ware is our smaller “finesse” edge athlete. The bookend should have more Shawne Merriman in him.
Manny Lawson would be a good back up to Ware, but I don’t think he has a place as a starter on this Cowboys team.
Look at the DEs and some OLBs available. I’m pretty sure we don’t go LB in the first round. Lawson will certainly be available at 18, btw. This draft is so, so, so deep at OLB, I think Parcells grabs an OT or a DT if he stays put in the first, and gets LBs in the 2nd and 3rd. Lots of quality 3-4 OLBs available.
Look at Ninkovich, Gocong, Parys Haralson, Mark Anderson, Lacasse, Wimbley, and even the true OLBs and you’ll see some quality talent available later on in the draft.
lou c,
Given Lawson’s outstanding 40 time, the Cowboys might just feel fortunate if he is still there at #18. Pass rushers are usually at a premium, and are usually taken ahead of their rankings. The only thing that might give other teams pause is his lack of size. He seems made for the 3-4 defense, and teams that play that defense (like the Cowboys) will rate Lawson significantly higher than others do.
You are thinking along the same lines I have been about this Vince Young fiasco. IF a test was improperly graded (which is possible, if, say, a wrong key was used), the remedy is to regrade the test, not retest the player. So, what happened? Did the dog eat his test?
joey2zs:
Do you think Parcells will grab an OT in the 1st round if they sign a quality OT in FA too, especially if it is a younger guy like Ashworth? Usually you want your 1st rounders to start right away and make an impact, especially when you have a 2 year window to win it all.
As for a DT, that is possible, but if the Glover situation is not resolved by the draft I would rule that one out completely as well.
Why wouldn’t you want a bookend similar to Ware? The offense gets to choose which side is the strong side, and last year that hurt Ware’s production. Get a similar player to play the bookend and they don’t have that option any longer. One of them should be available on nearly every pass play to blitz the QB. I haven’t seen any guys at the Senior Bowl or the Combine that remind me of Merriman either.
I’ve heard just the opposite about Lawson’s abilities at playing against the run. The things I have read claim he excels in that area of his game, partially due to his speed and also his long arms. I should also point out as far as his speed rushing goes, that he chased a very speedy Marcus Vick from the other side of the field before pulling him down with those long arms of his for a sack. Now that’s impressive to me. My main concern about Lawson would be his coverage skills, because NC St. chose to drop Mario Williams into coverage on TE’s more often. I’m not sure if this was by design, or if they simply preferred to lineup Williams on the strong side against the OT and TE and put their faster speed rusher on the weakside to try to blow past the LT 1-on-1. I need to research this more.
BTW - Ware was approximately the same weight as Lawson last year when he worked out at the Combine. Ware weighed about 4 pounds more. I’m sure if his agent bought him a nice big dinner at a Dallas steakhouse he would weigh the same.
Sterling,
I don’t have a problem with a bookend fo Ware, but that guy better be able to cover and defend against the run. Otherwise, we’ll see a replay of what teams did to Scott Fujita, who’s not a bad rusher. They’ll hammer the ball at him and bootleg him to death.
That’s why I still lean towards the guys who are true LBs, not converted DEs. Ware falls into the latter category. One is enough, IMO.
Rafael:
I see your point, although I view most of the true OLB’s in this draft as being more in the mold of Fujita. Everything I have read claims that Lawson is outstanding defending the run, although it is different from 4-3 DE than standing up. As far as the coverage thing goes, I’m sure a 4-3 college LB has seen more coverage duty than the average converted DE, but if someone’s an exceptional athelete (and especially one with long arms) it should be completely reasonable to coach them in this area of their game. Possessing such a burst of speed and having played LB before, I believe he could do this his rookie year just as a 4-3 OLB has to adjust their cover skills to the speed and size in the NFL their rookie year.
joey,
Lawson was originally being considered for our round 2 selection. I thought the player would be able to learn the WOLB spot and the MIKE LB spot while also immediately contributing on special teams. He now looks to be a 1st rounder with an awesome Senior Bowl and a superb workout at the combine. .. With the rumors that Ellis was getting traded, Dallas could easily change to a 3-3-5 nickel with Manny Lawson, having both Ware and Lawson on the outside, and always a threat to rush the passer. .. Since Parcells has stated that Ellis is staying, drafting Lawson is less probable. Still if he is there when its the Cowboys selection, he will be tough to pass up. Especially if he is that much better than anyone on the board.
I dug up these stats on Ware from NFL.com. 4.51 in the 40-yard dash (wind-aided) … 4.56 in the 40-yard dash (normal conditions) … 430-pound bench press … Bench pressed 225 pounds 23 times … 570-pound squat … 360-pound power clean … 4.27 20-yard shuttle … 7.08 three-cone drill … 38½-inch vertical jump … 10-foot-7 broad jump … 34-inch arm length … 10-inch hands … Right-handed.
Here is what I found on Lawson at NFL.com: 4.43 40-yard dash. 39.5 inch vertical jump. 10 foot 4 broad jump. 4.18 20-yard shuttle. 11.08 60-yard shuttle. 6.90 3-cone drill.
So Lawson is faster and quicker than Ware in just about every measure. What we don’t know is how their strength compares.
This is Boylharts profile on Lawson from december.
Strengths
Manny is an excellent football player and athlete. He was moved from OLB to the DE position and I think it was a very good move for him. Despite his lack of bulk, he is strong at the point of attack and has a quick burst off the line to rush the passer. Right now, he really doesn’t have that many pass rushing moves so there is plenty of upside in his game. He could play as a DE in a 4-3 or an OLB in a 3-4. Manny is fast and strong and very smart. He has first round talent and he is one of my personal favorites in this draft.
Needs to Improve
He needs to bulk up, but not for strength. He needs to bulk up to help him take the pounding of a 16-game season.
Bottom Line
This kid will start to move up in this draft as soon as he completes his workouts. I don’t think the scouts realize how athletic Manny is because everyone is always watching the junior at the other end of the D-line. Manny just might be the better player in the long run. Manny reminds me a lot of Jason Taylor (DE-Miami Dolphins). He has the same kind of build and plays the game with the same mental toughness and leadership skills as Jason. I’m not sure how much bulk Manny can put on his frame, but I am sure that even if he can’t bulk up, it won’t hold him back from being a future Pro Bowl player for the team that drafts him. Manny is much better than you would think against the run and he is a more of a complete DE than most people give him credit for. He’s only played DE for two years and is just now learning what he can accomplish at that position. He will grow into an intimidating player in a few years and a player for which teams are going to have to game plan. He has not received the credit he deserves, but I have a feeling that by draft time, he will. I call him Manny (Robert) Lawson because he must feel like the brother on Everybody Loves Raymond. Everybody comes to check out Mario and forgets all about Manny.
he said the same thing about Ware last year when he was below radar.
Ridgelake
thanks for the stats that saved me alot of work.
Lawson would be a great pick IMHO. I’m here in NC State territory and I can tell you that what Sterling has been reading is accurate. Lawson is very good against the run. He is extremely fluid and has great instincts. He did struggle against bigger lineman, but that wouldn’t be as much of a problem for him as an OLB.
As much as I like Lawson, I would still prefer Carpenter because he has proven coverage skills and I’m not that confident in Lawson being able to adequately cover a TE from day 1. However, if we didn’t get Carpenter, Lawson would be a great consolation prize as I think he may have more upside. They say you can’t teach speed and the stats provided by Ridgelake (thanks for posting those) are extremely impressive for anyone, let alone a DE/OLB. I think Offensive Coordinators would lose some serious sleep trying to figure out how to prevent the QB from getting killed against a D that had Lawson and Ware.
what do ya’ll think about getting Reggie McNeal from Texas A&M??? he’s as good an athlete as Vince Young (w/o the supporting cast) and has one of the fastest 40s and best throwing arms in the Big 12.
what say you?