Tuesday NFL Tidbits
Posted: February 28, 2006 @ 9:43 am
– The Texans are considering swapping picks with the Jets. Newsday claims a proposed deal could have Houston move from 1 to 4, gaining DE John Abraham in the process. The Jets could then select USC QB Matt Leinart.
The move makes some sense from a points perspective. The top pick is worth 3000 points on a draft value chart. The fourth pick is worth 1800 points. The 1200 point difference is equivalent to the 12th pick in the first round.
Abraham was taken 13th overall in 2000.
The article also claims that Leinart is the hot QB, with the Jets, Saints and Titans all having serious interest in the 2004 Heisman winner.
– The Boston Herald mentions Cleveland, Dallas and Miami as possible landing spots for Patriots OLB Willie McGinnest. Not surprisingly, those three teams run 3-4 defenses and are coached by members of the Bill Parcells/Bill Belichick coaching fraternity. McGinnest has stated his desire to stay with New England.
If Dallas were to acquire McGinnest, it would be a case of better late than never; Jerry Jones tried desperately to trade up in the 1994 draft and select McGinnest, who Jones saw as a replacement for Charles Haley. Jones had a deal worked out with the Rams that would have sent WR Alvin Harper to St. Louis for the 5th overall pick. Parcells scuttled his plans by selecting McGinnest with the 4th pick.
– New England feels confident it can re-sign K Adam Vinatieri if a new CBA is worked out this week.
– The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that free agency will be delayed one to two weeks so teams can reassess their salary caps after the expected CBA extension is ratified this week.
–
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Wow, Kai Parham looked terrible in the hash-to-hash LB drills.
Greenway was the most impressive to me so far.
I like Ernie Sims.
Would like to see these guys pad up and drill running backs in open field tackles.
Woo hoo! Football!
Put me on the list for passing on McGinest. I’m worried about how much tread he has left on his tires. He’s a good guy and would be a fit for us short-term but I think he turns 35 this year. Who wants to take a chance that a 35 yr old can stay healthy all season at a high impact position. I’m for looking to the future here with a draft pick or, if we have to, a steady Eddie to get us by until we find the “guy” for the future. Signing McGiniest would be a very late Pyrrhic victory for Jones.
I wouldnt mind drafting a guy like Carpenter to play OLB when McGinnest isn’t in and move inside when he is. We need depth at LB and there you go.
As for all these workouts go, don’t forget that alot of guys would look horrible working out, but when you put him on the field he makes every play. I think Parham could be one of those players. Hes a hard hitter, but you dont really get to see any of that. Theres also no tackling so its hard to get a measure on LB’s.
Hawk looks great, Sims looks good as does Greenway.
Raf,
The Jets are in love with Leinhart from what I hear in NJ. I think that he and Fergunson are the safest picks in the draft, and that Leinhart is the surest thing at QB and thats why he makes perfect sense for the Jets. Heres the thing though, the Saints have McAllister, would they take Bush?….The Texans get their Public pleasing guy in ABraham and the guy they want in DBrick.
If I am Houston I would rather have a 1 next year especially from the jets.
I guess I only want McGinnest if we can get him for a reasonable price. When I say a reasonable price, I mean a price that does not require him to be the starting OLB. At 35 years old, his best fit is as a part time player.
If he plays full time, you have to assume his body won’t hold up to the pounding.
For the right price, he can provide much needed depth and experience. Whether we get him or not, we still need a young OLB to bookend Ware.
IMO, Houston is getting a good deal.
I would take ‘Brick’ and Abraham…that would give some good talent to Houston.
I also would not mind McGinnest as the outside linebacker…I am thinking that if the Cowboys have been trying to string out Al Singleton at that position due to his consistency, McGinnest would be a true upgrade…
I would take McGinest a moderate price as long as we still draft a young LB on the first day. Adding Carpenter and McGinest would be nice, but 35 is pretty old in football years.
Also, the Jets franchised Abraham recently, so wouldn’t that mean the Texans would have to give up 2 first rounders to get him? Maybe I’m confused
lou c:
I agree with your assessments.
Perhaps Parham is kind of like Zack Thomas was? I remember he didn’t impress many scouts at the Combine and fell on draft day. He was Jimmy’s best draft pick with the Dolphins I thought. Then again MLB/ILB is a position where I think good instincts, aggressiveness, and a certain mean-spiritedness can make a player more successful than the measurables.
Hawk is what he is, a great LB. He’s so solid that I don’t see him needing to get much better.
I’m still not sold on Greenway. He is supposedly a great pass rusher, but I haven’t seen it yet. I like his lateral movements and he flows to the ball well, but something about his game seems kind of soft.
Sims will go pretty high because he’s so fast, but I don’t think he’s a fit for the Cowboys because of his size. Reminds me of Derrick Brooks when he was at FSU.
I think that the team can demand 2 First Rds- but I do not think that it is mandatory.
RParr:
The only time you have to give up the 2 first round picks is if a team were to sign him to a FA contract while he’s under the franchise player designation. That’s not likely, since it has only happened in the NFL a handful of times ever, if that many. This scenario would be the Jets trading his rights to the Texans, so that would be considered an outright trade, not a FA signing. The Texans would still have to give him a new contract though., since he’s currently under a franchise tender.
2 first round picks are for an outright signing ! If there is a trade agreement the team with the franchised player can forego the 2 1st rounders.
Jason Allen just ran a 4.42 I like him. I dont know if he will be there with our Number 2 but it IS a possibility. I’d love to come out with 2 Defensive players in the first 2 Rounds and pick up the OL in Free Agency. Players I like are Michael Huff, Jimmy Williams, Jason Allen, Gabe Watson, Broderick Bunkley, Manny Lawson, Bobby Carpenter, and possibly Kameron Wimbley. Chad Jackson Id also consider at WR Do you guys think we can grab 2 of these guys oronly one with the rest gone by our number 2?
Chris Gocong looks like he can play and is an athlete but I dont think Id take him before Round 3. Someone is going to be extremely happy with Michael Huff but he will not last past 10
biotrek,
I think its possible, Jason Allen scares off teams because of his hip injury he suffered last year. I heard it was bad but he seems fully healed. He will be there in round 2 IMO. I think Gabe Watson could fall some too, now that he didnt impress too much at the Combine and teams will still look at his playing days at Michigan. He was actually benched this year, thats bad for a SR. He could fall to #2, the rest are all round 1 guys for me.
I think the Broncos will take Gabe Watson with one of their picks. Big interior DL’s always go higher than expected. Besides, he’d be the riskiest player available, so he’s a perfect fit as a Shanahan type of draft pick.
manny lawson ran a 4.45, 6′6 245
lou c.,
You raise a good question — might Bush be the guy who falls, and how far? I read a Scouts Inc. piece on ESPN yesterday and they listed Domanick Davis as a potential cut or trade bait. As crazy as it seems, they noted that the Texans got Verand Morency last year and Davis has a $3.8M cap number this year. If they draft Bush that number goes on the bench, more than likely.
Ferguson makes more sense to me than Bush. I think David Carr’s back would concur.
The lucky team(s) will be the Packers and 49ers if this happens. Vince Young might not be the top QB anymore, but I think he only slips as far as third among QBs. He’ll still go in the top four, IMO.
So, if Ferguson moves up or stays at four, Bush goes down. The Packers may still prefer Mario Williams (he simply fills their biggest need) so the Niners would get Bush.
OTOH, if the Packers take Bush, then Williams is scooped up by San Fran.
Not bad either way, IMO.
You can take the whole trade story as a ploy by the Texans to raise the price of the #1 pick. I think they want to get a good solid defensive player and Ferguson. .. I don’t think that the Jets are that crazy about Leinhart. If the Jets can get good value for Abraham, then Bush, Ferguson, or Super Mario should suit them. The Jets don’t seem to be the player here. Again I think it is Houston trying to spice up trade talks with the teams behind them.
Yeah, I want to do a mock draft but honestly I have no clue how the top 10 will go. The locks to go top 10 IMO are: Bush, Leinhart, Young, Cutler, DBrick, SuperMario. Those are the top 5. Then these 7 players will fight it out for the next 5:
Ngata
Hawk
Justice
Huff
White
Davis
Sims (darkhorse)
The consensus is that it will be Bush, Leinhart, Young, Cutler. I think that this is true despite IMO Fergunson being the safest and best pick in the draft. I think the Texans feel the same way, but its all about getting fans.
I’ve heard more skeptics talk about Bush, Leinhart, Young, and Cutler than DBrickashaw. Thats why I think he is the safest pick. Just about every scout says that you can draft him, put him at LT, and forget about the position for 10 years. Young and Cutler could flop, Bush will be good, but maybe not as good as the hype (some scouts say he could just be a better version of Warrick Dunn, its still good but not Gale Sayers type player), and Leinhart will always have questions about his arm and whether he can play with a bad team.
If at 18, there are Chad Greenway, Bobby Carpenter, and Kamerion Wimbley available, who does everyone go with? Or trade down?
Raf,
Who is all these trading places would impact us at 18? Does it give us better selection of players we are looking for or????
Eric R,
The Jets really do like Leinhart but the NYNews is reporting the Jets are not interested in trading up and would rather take Cutler with 4. This makes sense to me, take a team like the Eagles, they are looking for a DE, the Jets could offer Abraham for pick #14 and then get D’Angelo Williams. Theres your QB and RB, payroll is shed with getting rid of Abraham, and then draft a guy like Jean Gilles or Scott early with their 2nd.
lou c.,
The Eagles do have cap room, but Abraham wants a contract equal to Jevon Kearse’s. Can a team carry TWO of those monster deals?
If Dallas has a set shot at both WR SanTonio Holmes and Chad Jackson at #18, what will they do?
lou c,
Why do the Eagles need a DE? They have Trent Cole, who looked very good at times last year, and Kearse. Plus they can resign Kalu if they wanted to. I mean they may be interested in adding depth or possibly a book end to compliment the “Freak”, but I don’t see them going after a high priced player there. Surely I don’t see them trading away there 1st rounder and then dishing out the big $$$ too.
CCBoy,
They draft a linebacker unless they do sign McGinnest, or if Vernon Davis is still on the board (highly unlikely). We don’t need a first round receiver this year. The class is weak this year. I would take Davis over any wide receiver in the draft. Wouldn’t you rather have two top tier tight ends or a so-so receiver core? I will say though if you absolutely have to have a WR in the first and I have those two to pick from its Chad Jackson all the way. Unofficially a 4.29 40 and he can catch. Did you guys see him at the skills competition? He solidified that performance at the combine as well. He is the guy if you must have a WR.
I have been thinking for a while that Chad Jackson is the best WR in this class. He’s got better size than Holmes or Moss and great speed. At the college football skills competition he won 3 different events - so you know he is an athlete, and was only a junior last year so he stands to get better. I doubt the Cowboys draft WR in the first round, but if it were him, that’d be all right with me.
The Eagles are actually looking for a DE in the draft, probably Hali from Penn St. Now that I think about I agree they cant afford Abraham. But what I meant is I think it would be a smart move to move Abraham to get a early RB because I think their is alot of depth at RB this year. With all the stud FA running backs, some are going to fall. I say Bush goes early, and then White goes to the Cardinals, while the Ravens sign a RB as does Minnesota. So DAneglo Williams will fall as will Maroney.
Ngata might fall. I really could see him falling and possibly past Clevland if they get Make Kameoto. If he falls past 12, is he worth moving up for? I still believe that NT is extremely important for us. I could live with a stud NT and a Safety and a converted DE later in the draft. If we prevent the run, we’ll be fine. I dont think Parcells will let Moss beat our Safetys again this year. I’d love an OLB pass rusher but Im not positive its absolutely necessary for a Superbowl run. I believe we just need to ensure our interior DL is overpowering and improve our Offensive Line. If we can get Fabini, Sowell, Longwell a NT and a Safety, I think we can contend for the Superbowl. BUT if we become weak at NT or OL wed can forget it.
lou c:
Your top 10 is very interesting, and I agree with your ideas wholeheartedly. I would also put DeAngelo Williams into the mix in that area as well. The question I have been pondering is what if Hawk survives until the 12th pick? Although it may sound difficult, I can envision some scenarios where that is a very real possibility given the type of players available and the needs of teams from picks 6-11. Linebackers have also tended to fall in recent drafts (ie - Derrick Johnson) and this is supposed to be a deep class this year too. So what if Hawk is available at #12? What do Crennel and the Browns do? We know they are going to be interested in Manny Lawson, but Hawk is the real deal at a position they need and would give them an anchor in their LB corps. Plus he’s an Ohio St. guy, and would probably be very popular with Browns fans. Personally I think they would have to go with Hawk.
Though the status of VY doesnt impact us, I think he could fall and yet I think the teams that pass on him will be sorry. This guy wins games and he is utterly amazing. IMO he is a perfect leader. He may be different. Far different than lets say Aikman but he enspires confidence and keeps his team loose. I’d take him before Bush. it would be difficult to pick him Number 1 but I think Cutler will eventually be the best.
biotrek:
The Bills are parting with Sam Adams for cap reasons and will need a big DT to replace him. Given his physical gifts and talent I doubt very highly he would make it past the Bills pick. He seems to fit their needs to a tee.
I agree NT is important, but only if there is resolution to the Glover situation by then. If Glover is gone there are opportunities later in the draft as well. Otherwise, if Glover stays there is already too much money tied up at that position with Ferguson and Glover to afford to cut their playing time further. Part of the problems with stopping the run came from not having a ILB who could step up and make plays next to B-James after Dat Nguyen got injured. The NT’s seemed to fill their gaps, but teams seemed to be running more off tackle plays. A quality ILB would be the best solution for that.
Where do you think P. Harleson will go?
Stanley Mcglover?
Mike Anderson?
Chris Cogong?
Ray Edwards?
I think these guys can play OLB.
Where do you think Dusty Dvorcheck goes? 2?3?4?
I think there will be a good DT convert to DE like Ratliff real late.
biotrek:
Those guys all looked like second day guys to me. Harleson could possibly sneak into the 3rd round if a team like Cleveland or Miami is still looking for more tweeners. None of them stood out to me at either the Senior Bowl or the Combine so I can’t imagine a team using a first day pick on one of them. Dusty Dvorcheck could have had a promising career because of his size, but he blew it a few years ago when he got kicked off his team and had to go to rehab and anger management classes. If a guy like Chris Canty could drop to the 4th round last year, I can only imagine that guys like this in a draft this deep will draft at least as far.
Well, it looks like there won’t be a CBA extension. Talks have broken off and Upshaw walked out and is leaving NYC. Tagliabue’s deadline is tomorrow at 3PM and no one believes they will meet it. Upshaw’s quote was that “It looks like 2007 will be an uncapped year”.
Watch for the cuts to start soon. This could get ugly fast. The free agency period is still scheduled to start March 3rd, barring a last minute compromise. Yikes!!
I wanted the CBA to be done as the carnage might get too much and might cause some long term trouble.
BUT……
watching the skins implode would be enjoyable.
sorry to change the topic,but here in boston there’s talk about vinateri.the boston herald reported the pats shouldn’t even give parcells and jerry a chance to get vinateri.which leads to believe if he does not sign a long term contract by friday with the pats dallas could make a push for vinateri.
this vince young test result is sickening,here we go again with the black qb made out to be inferior,now they say the test scores were wrong,and they showed other qb’s in the past who had lower scores what is the big deal.
Sterling,
It still sounds to me that revenue sharing is the big issue. The 3.5% difference in salary cap raises is a tiny problem. This is about the owners!! I am totally with Jerry Jones on forcing “smaller” market teams to create more revenue for themselves. The way the language seems to be set up, is that teams who do nothing to stir up revenue will share revenues with teams’ owners, like Jones, who are constantly pioneering new ways to raise the value of their teams and the NFL. If there is going to be a demand for revenue sharing then owners should be highly encouraged to “sell” their team to the public. … The way I see it, is the owners in no way shape or form should be in position to create an uncapped season or force a strike. The players and the owners are very close in agreement. This is a war of owner against owner! It would be a damn shame if there were all these cuts and a “wacky” offseason filled with confusion due to owners not agreeing on revenue sharing. Tagliabue wants to add another team to the NFL, yet there isn’t enough money to go around now? That is absurd!!
biz,
Do you have some sort of black complex? I haven’t heard ANY mention of Vince’s ethnicity. Every time someone says something bad about him or any other black quarterback you jump on this race thing. I think it is people like you who immediately point to a person’s race as a reason they are being criticized is the reason race to this day is as big an issue as it is. Who cares if he freakin purple? I love Vince and his leadership abilities are what make him more then just a talented athlete. He is not a black athlete he is just an athlete. Leave the racial arguments at the door, IMO. What concerns me more is that people are comparing him to Jeff George. That guy couldn’t lead ants to a picnic.
the texans are moving to a 4-3 this year, and have stated that their need is at end,or they would have peek and babins( who, was an end in college that they drafted to be like dware but he’s failed at it!)at end.they have expressed interest in getting rid of some of their players, because they feel that some players don’t get bothered when they lose, that the locker room wasn’t as tense or whatever it should be when you are stinkin up the field.so they could do a number of things with their #1, because of so many holes to fill. they could trade dom. davis and still get reggie and a good ol and defensive end.sorry guys, i live here in htown, so i know too much about ‘em
I wouldn’t mind taking on McGinest with a 3 year deal with some reasonable cash in the first two years and then setting him up so that they can cut him in the 3rd year if they want to and not take much of a cap hit.
Even if Dallas drafts an LOLB, my guess is that they’ll go after either somebody like Hali or Lawson who were college DE’s. I’m not too nuts about having two very young guys playing the OLB spots, so having McGinest would provide some security and give them somebody to learn from and leadership.
If things worked out and they could get McGinest, a FS, and draft a talented LOLB while staying reasonably healthy….this could be a scary defense.
Eric R:
I agree, the owners should settle their grievances amongst themselves at the owners meeting and get this CBA done with the players now. The problem as I see it is some of these smaller market teams that are hoarding cash like crazy by letting their teams suck. I keep hearing people talk about how the Cardinals have so much money to spend in FA because they are so far under the cap. Well guess why? Because they have one of the stingiest owners in the NFL who wouldn’t max out his salary cap even if they were selling out every game. Bidwell doesn’t even give it a good effort to make his team a true contender. He would never pay a coach a much as JJ is paying Parcells, no way, no how. Cardinals fans know this, and as a result they show the team no loyalty and I would be willing to bet that nearly half the fans in the stands at home games are there to see the Cardinals opponents play. So why should franchises like the Cowboys have to share revenue with a clown like Bidwell who is already gaining a significant amount of his ticket revenue off the bigger teams coming to town anyway?
This is part of the problem with the situation where I live. L.A. hasn’t had a team in almost a decade. How much sense does it make that a population center as big as the L.A./O.C./I.E. area not have a team? It makes plenty of sense when you consider that the only stadiums big enough to accomodate an NFL team are older college football stadiums and there is not enough available real estate at a reasonable enough price to erect a new stadium. Both the existing venues are gigantic and have more than enough general seating to play host to NFL teams. So what’s the problem? No owner or ownership group wants to spend the money to purchase an expansion franchise from the NFL and pay the fees to the city for 8 home games a year, unless they can make up their money with expensive skyboxes and luxury suites. This is where the business side of the NFL really alienates fans.
if Glover drops about 15 LBS and Ellis drops about 10 that would put them both at about 260ish. I have heard some of you saying Ellis could move to LOLB and he is athletic enough and he has seen the position. But could Glover make the switch to ILB?
gunner:
It’s hard for a 20-year old player to play a position that he hasn’t ever played before and you want to change 2 30ish players that have made quite a living playing their positions.
I give Ellis an optimistic 30% of that happening but Glover gets a 0.
Cool, thanks. I just noticed the subject pops up now and then half heartedly and I wondered about the odds.
Sterling,
What amazes me is that in the early 90’s the Cleveland Indians were considered a large market in the baseball financial debates. Yet in the same city Art Modell was moving his Browns team out of the “small” market city. Most teams crying “small market” are simply teams that aren’t winning. .. Now I believe in revenue sharing to keep the league competative. But the teams that draft players that bust, sign veteran players past their primes, and are in salary cap hell, should not benifit off of the teams building good teams. There should be a bar, and if teams fail to reach that bar, then a revenue sharing penalty should be enforced. .. You are absolutely right though, this should have been settled during past owners meetings. To get it all caught up in the CBA negotiations is a horrible mistake by the owners. .. But the bottom line is, if you do the math, the NFL’s team’s revenues are close to $6 billion. For them to risk loosing a season over sharing revenue is rediculous. Tagliabue needs to step in here and force the owners to come to middle ground.
Does anybody know if this helps or hurts the Cowboys? Any repracussions from the team b/c of no deal?
Sterling,
Land is not the issue preventing LA from getting a football team. Drive by Carson on the 405. The issue is that CA is in debt big time and the Sacramento will not subsidize the $$$ needed to build a stadium, couple that with local politicians who also aren’t interested in taxing citizens and a large % of the population who feel ‘futbol’ should be played with a soccer ball and it all adds up to no stadium and therefore no local team.
Good news for Cowboy fans is it means they get more games shown on local TV besides Chargers and the Raiders.
IMO Mcginnest would be a awesome addition to the boys last year they showed how hard this guy trains in the off season and it was awesome even though he’s 35 he really takes care of his body..now he’s obviously not a starter but what a great locker room presence/leader he would be for D Ware and (hopefully) Carpenter if we picked him up in the 1st round..hey did any one read about that williams kid from va-tech sounds liek another big time/mouth corner in the league if you ask me i think our D could use a guy like that…lol were too quiet if u ask me we need some trash talkers on d that can give us our swag back!
TL fan:
There is land, I’m not disputing that point. Whether it’s available for development is another matter, however. The zoning restrictions out here for live event venues is out of control. The cost of obtaining permits, licenses, alcohol licenses, putting up stadium lighting, parking lots, etc. is prohibitive because of our corrupt local politicians that you speak of. No way would Sacramento get mixed up in building a stadium, the voters across the rest of the state would be furious, especially given all the other problems.
The point I was making is that we have two very large stadiums out here that can host NFL games. One of them is evidently good enough for the NFL to have the Super Bowl every know and again. The problem is that in the modern NFL, the owners want to make all this money off of skyboxes and luxury suites. A good example is when the city of Denver built Pat Bowlen ‘New Mile High Stadium’, aka Invesco Field. The new stadium has something like 4 more seats than the old Mile High. Yet, the day after the stadium initiative was approved, supposedly the value of the Broncos franchise went up by over $80 million. Why? Because it had so many more luxury boxes that could be rented out every season for big $$$$. Some teams are able to do this, others aren’t. Personally, I could care less until it starts affecting whether I get to watch NFL football on Sundays…then I get angry about it. Hopefully this CBA mess will get settled and not screw everything up.
Football should just kiss the cap goodbye…then our BOYs would be baseballs yankees….the more we would win …the more poeple would hate us…the more we would all smile…
Iron Man,
Be careful what you wish for. Jerry gets his money from the game. He doesn’t have a private family empire to tap. How do we know he’s paid off all the initial debt he took on when he bought the team?
The teams I would worry about in a new system would be Seattle, where Paul Allen could tap his billions in Microsoft cash and Washington, where Dan Snyder has money to burn and a new stadium already built, something Jerry lacks.
If Allen wanted to spend like a drunken sailor there’s no way Jerry or anybody else could match him.