Shopping for Supplements
Posted: June 23, 2006 @ 11:18 am
Update: The Boston Globe claims “a line of teams” are willing to spend either a third or a fourth round pick on Ahmad Brooks in the supplemental draft. Sounds about right to me. I’m guessing Brooks will go to either the Niners or Browns in the third round. He’s an ideal 3-4 ILB, when his head is right. If he gets past those two he won’t last past Miami.
With the NFL’s supplemental draft approaching, scouts gathered this week to assess former Virginia LB Ahmad Brooks, the top prospect in this year’s very small group.
According to the Boston Herald, representatives from 22 teams watched Brooks run through a battery of drills. He weighed in at 260 lbs. and ran two 40s. One averaged in the low 4.5s and the other was just under 4.7. Brooks benched 225 lbs. a disappointing 19 times.
I doubt the Cowboys would select Brooks unless he was available in the third round. Bill Parcells is on record that he loves linebackers and tight ends and will stockpile good ones any time they become available. Brooks is a talented one. He’s also had disciplinary and accountability problems which won’t do him any favors.
If interest is any indication, Brooks will likely become a 49er. ‘Niners coach Mike Nolan attended the workout. He was the only HC to do so.
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A couple of questions:
The 15th pick in the first round was traded by Atlanta to Denver. But I would assume that Atlanta ‘owns’ the 15th selection in the supplemental draft…is that correct
Could Dallas have a team picking earlier than it (say the Jets with the 3rd round pick) select Brooks and then immediately trade the rights to Dallas for later consideration?
This may sound crazy to everyone, but I would select him with an early 3rd and maybe even a 2nd, assuming he is the stud LB everyone thought he’d be (some said a Top 5 pick) and he has his head on straight. It helps PB and his WIN TODAY attitude and it gives us the best LB corp in the NFL…talk about having your Defense set. If Hatcher develops, your only hole is a FS that can be addressed next year, assuming Watkins is not up to the task.
Not only do you have the best defense in the NFL, you also have the youngest….scary!!!
Raf as I was reading about the supplemental draft yesterday on another website I was thinking”Hey,this would be a great topic for the boys blog” Ya beat me to it!Good job! NFL.com sez that Brooks had all 31 teams with reps to see Brooks workout and only the Vikings were not there.And i think you’re right about him probably becoming a 49′r because they showed the most interest and invited him for additional workouts in SF.As far as should we get him,I can’t make an intelligent decision because I don’t know if he’s healthy and those discipline problems bother me(maybe that’s why he wasn’t able to do more reps..hmmm)We are stacked at linebacker right now and it would be a shame to waste a draft pic….
Very good point TL…..we wouldn’t be in position to get him anyway…
Dallas wont be wasting their time and draft pick on Brooks, he’s already failed two drug test and will enter the NFL in the NFL drug program, many off the field issues and was thrown off his college team. If this kid was serious about turning his carrer around, he would of showed up for his workout in alot better condition, some report say he wasn’t very impressive on his pro day and I dont want or think dallas should waste a third or fourth round pick on this troubled kid, we had enough of these troubled players on this team over the years, Larrimore,Ross, Bryant, Goodrich, just to name a few. We’re pretty deep at linebacker this year.
IS THEIR A WR IN THE DRAFT?? IT WAS RUMORED THAT THE KID FROM USC WAS GOING TO BE IN THE SUP DRAFT BECAUSE HE LOST ELIGIBLITY DUE TO LIVING W/MATT LEINART. WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT??
sorry for caps
mikeridge,
The last I heard, Dwayne Jarrett was NOT going to lose his eligibility.
Yeah I just did some research and Brooks just doesn’t have his act together.And can you imagine how out of control he might get when he gets an NFL contract and paycheck? I don’t think it’s worth a third OR fourth.I think it’s a mute point anyway because he’ll probably go before we pick anyway…..
I dont think they’ll bring in a WR. They have some younger guys on the roster they are interested in seeing more of and they likely dont want to give up the spots.
Exactly Jarhead…….we have TO,Glenn,Crayton as our starters with Merit,Copper,Jamiaca Rector and Skylar Green pulling up the rear.That makes 7 recievers and the roster can only have so many.Ofcourse if one of these falters then we might look into bringing someone else in….
sharkz,
Numbers! And that’s not even counting Austin, Hurd and Tolver. Not to mention that most of the youngsters made a positive impression at the mini-camp. That is why Crowder was released. He was probably number 11 on the depth chart, and really didn’t have much of a chance to make the roster.
We know TO and TG won’t be around for ever, but we have to assume they will be around for at least 2 more years. That said, if there is an incredible value pick available next year in the draft (maybe Ted Ginn in Rd 2) I say take a WR, otherwise, we can wait another year.
Rookie receivers are rarely effective because they have to adapt to facing multiple coverage schemes, but I think the real must next year is a QB. Anyone on the Trent Edwards bandwagon yet?
i kno they are both hard hitting safetys. but for the deadskins-cowboys rivalry sake, i would like to see an debate about sean taylor and roy williams. they are similar players..
Apparently Taylor isn’t a SS anymore. It’s hard to compare two guys cut out for different positions.
Watching the NFL skills competition on NFL network from last year, Larry Allen did 43 reps of 225 lbs and made it look so easy. amazing strength. LeCharles Bently - 35. Lorenzo Neal - 32. Joey Porter - 35. Shaun Rogers - 23. Osi Umenyiora - 5, then quit. I know Kosier will be more agile, but I wonder how his strength compares. I hate to toss this link out there, but it is the silly season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEGbk5ILBII&search=Kyle%20Kosier
yeah, its silly season alright, one play doesn’t make a career, that was what, from atleast two years ago, we know that larry Allen wouldn’t be able to even get out there in space to even be in position to make a block. We know Larry can beat up a kicker, but that about all he can do now unless a tackle stands in front of him only.Kosier will be fine, we might even see a screen that works now.
RParr
There was a time when even LA was handled and tossed around. He didnt always dominate.
Bad_Religion2006
Taylor is a good athlete like Roy. I dont know about his head though. I also remember his rookie season he had trouble beating out Matt Bowen. Bowen started the first couple of games. I dont think Roy would have the same trouble getting on the field.
I saw Reggie White decleat LA with one arm, while suffereing from a disolocated shoulder injury.
Wow Kosier got killed in that play. I really do not know what to say except that he was probably a rookie back then.
If you look hard enough you will find that every player, no matter how great, will make the occasional bad/dumb play. ANYONE that judges any player on ONE play is just plain stupid.
Cash,
Oddly enough, it was Erik Williams who popularized “pancake blocks” by DOMINATING a healthier, younger White. … Williams, for about 3 years was the best O-lineman I have ever seen play. Shame what happened to him. … But my point is that people rave about Allen and say he is a shoe in for the Hall, yet Williams was a lot better than Allen ever was. Allbeit, his career was short, but in my opinion Erik Williams was the most dominating player the Cowboys have ever had in their history (aside from Deion, which I count as a Falcon).
Who are the best players you have ever seen play?
Mine are (in order):
LT
Deion
Rice
Williams
… Those 4 dominated and revolutionized their positions.
My next tier (in no particular order):
Elway
Mawae
Bruce Smith
Reggie White
Ray Lewis
Ronnie Lott
Dermonti Dawson
My football watching started in the mid 80s. So what is your list?
Yeah, that clip always gets thrown around against Kosier. It’s from his rookie year when he’s playing OT, which he won’t play for Dallas. It’s irrelevant to his ‘06, IMO.
Eric R GREAT comment about Erik W.
I agree his did his job and you are right about him……….Don’t forget stepnoski!
LA better than EW??????
This is a good argument(in their prime) I would take Erik!
Erik Williams broke Ted Washington’s leg with a two handed punchout in the ‘93 NFC title game.
Ted Washington’s a serious NT. I think Michael Irvin had it right — before his injury, Erik Williams may have been the best player in the game at any position. Too bad he was only healthy for 2.5 years.
I remember watching a younger LaRoi Glover and Joe Johnson on the Saints Eat LA alive. Johnson threw him with a one arm power move and I remember watching LA bounce off the ground in slo-mo.
anyone can be had. Except I don’t ever remember EWilliams getting beat.
alanTdot,
That was the year (1998) Allen played left tackle. It was the only time Allen got beat all year.
If you want a play where Allen dominated that year, find a clip of the game against Arizona, where Larry cuffed Simeon Rice along side the shoulder, throwing him completely out of the TV frame. Rice made a feint to the outside and tried to move back to the inside. Allen just gave him a whack with his right hand. One minute Rice was there. The next, he had disappeared. It reminded me of a bear disciplining a cub.
By the way, Allen went for 2 straight years (1999 and 2000) without allowing a sack.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m going to miss him. He wasn’t the same dominant player these last few years, but he was still Larry Allen.
Mr. Bill:
Yeah, as been said before, he’s still capable of making DLineman and LBs fly away of the TV frame, but…. Last season he was beaten in a consistent basis, I remember the Oakland game, in one play Sapp made a double move, got himself between Allen and Johnson, Allen responded late and was thrown out of balance out of the play by Sapp. He looked like a slow footed rookie….
We’re going to miss the old Allen, I’m not so sure that I’ll be missing the Allen of the last few years, he consistently followed a good play with a bad one.
I’m glad to see that you guys are recongizing the skills that Erik Williams had during his time. I’ve have mentioned several times in the past that he would be a great coach for the current o-line. He played with the appropriate attitude and had great technique. This was true even after his accident and injury. This is something he could pass on to the current roster.
Not to cahnge the subject, but I read 2 DallasCowboys.com articles pertaining to roster changes, both by Nick Eatman. It seems like he miscounted both times the number of current players. He now counts 88 players. I just counted them, and there are 89. Am I crazy? aybe there is one person who was cut, that just hasn’t officially been removed.
I think E.J.Whitley is now on IR and doesn’t count as being on the active roster.
Derrick, thats right, I forgot about that thanks.
Is Whitley out for the season? I seem to remimber hearing that, but i forget. (Old age)
Chandus,
It is really a shame that Larry Allen had regressed so badly. In his prime, Allen owned Sapp, and Sapp isn’t what he once was either. I blame this regression completely on Allen for neglecting his conditioning and lower-body explosiveness, and focusing too much on upper-body strength. At his age, he should still be effective, but he is not.
SDCOWBOYFAN and Derrick,
E.J. Whitley probably accounts for the over count, but he is not on IR yet. No one can be placed on IR at this time of the year. In fact, I believe it is not until sometime in August that IR can be utilized. Whitley will probably be placed on the PUP list at the beginning of training camp until he can be placed on IR. Another possibility would be for Whitley to be released-injured and then placed on IR later (like they did with Rogers last year). Eatman probably knows this, and is discounting Whitley in his calculations.
Yes, Whitley is out for the year with a torn ACL.
This could probably work out better than what initial thoughts were if you were pulling for E.J. Whitley to make the team.
This could give Whitley the time to gain some much needed strength and muscle to his weak frame. Since I got to see every game he ever played at Texas Tech, I was of course hoping he would make the cut but I knew he didn’t have much power.
Who knows, maybe Whitley can turn out like Kosier or Jason Ferguson who were both 7th round picks.
Erik Williams also never made the probowl playing three different postitions as LA did. Also Larry Allen had a tremendous amount of speed for a man his size when he was young.
The conversation about Eric Williams and LA reminds me how I didn’t appreciate enough what we had during those years. As good as those 2 were, they weren’t that far ahead of the other members of the OL group. Maybe that’s another good discussion. Is there any current OL that could even sniff their jocks? What about all-time comparisons?
Cash,
I’ve been a huge LA fan but mentioning 3 Pro Bowls at different positions doesn’t carry much weight with me. The Pro Bowl selection process is a joke…..just look at LA being selected the past few years.
LA was a real pro bowl player up till about 2002. Once he injured that ankle he never really got back his mobility. He stopped working on it as well. He got so hung up on upper body strength that he neglected everything else.
StillHatethegints,
If it doesn’t carry much weight with you so be it. But just remember 1/3 of the vote is from the coaches who have to game plan for you, and another 1/3 of the vote is from the players that go up against you. Those opinions should be respected. Personally I don’t let the 1/3 of the vote that comes from the fans diminish the probowl selection to nothing. This isn’t like the baseball allstar game, where it’s an all fan vote.
Cash,
You’re right, it’s totally based on merit. That’s why Michael Vick made the roster. I have a bridge I’d like to sell you.
LA had a great career and is an all-time great offensive lineman (top 5). For the past few years he’s made the Pro Bowl based on that dominant reputation. Of the coaches who vote, do you mean the 13 the team faces or the 18 you don’t play? Same with the players, 60% of the players don’t play against a players team. As long as he fogs a mirror and keeps wowing people with his weight lifting feats, he’ll continue to make the roster.
StillHateTheGiants,
While some players get voted onto the Pro Bowl team based on past reputation, it still took something for them to build that reputation in the first place. Allen’s later selections might be suspect, but his earlier ones certainly were not.
I also don’t feel it is fair to tar the whole system, just because you feel a few were not deserving of the honor. Most of those players deserved their selection.
Mr. Bill,
I agree it took a lot to build the reputation and LA’s reputation was well deserved. The whole point started in a debate about whether he or Eric Williams were better in their prime. I think they can both be mentioned in the same breath and a nod to LA for the fact he played at that high level for a lot longer. I just know he didn’t deserve the last few Pro Bowls he was “given”.
I think the system is about as fair as it can be without getting ridiculous. OG is an especially tough position to evaluate because there isn’t a sack, int., TD, reception, type statistic to make selection easy. As a result, reputation plays a bigger role in selection.
StillHateTheGirls,
Vick made the probowl because the NFC QB’s last year, on the whole all sucked. Like it or not, with Vick Atl is a playoff team, without him they aren’t.
The NFC QB’s did suck last year. Uh, Atlanta didn’t make the playoffs either. They were 8-8, 1 game worse than Bledsoe’s team.
Regarding Allen and Williams,
The truly sad fact is that we never got to evaluate them, in their primes, side-by-side, and we should have.
Williams hurt his knee in the middle of the ‘94 season, before Allen had cracked the starting lineup.
All the self-inflicted wounds, from E.W.’s car accident to bungling Jimmy Williams to Irvin’s suspension makes my brain hurt. Mike Shanahan once said if there was no free agency that team would have won five Super Bowls, and I believe him.
StillHates….
So what is that two years that Vick has started in the league that his team hasn’t made the playoffs?
Raf,
I absolutely agree. Even with free agency, just avoiding the bone headed things would have meant at least one more.
My point about comparing Allen and Williams was the fact that Allen will most likely be inducted into the Hall of Fame, yet Williams was a better player and is barely considered. In fact Irvin wasn’t probably right, he was right, Erik Williams was the best player in football for 2 years. The best player in the NFL .. bar none!!
Now some say Allen dominated for 2-3 years. Well Williams dominated for 2 years as well. The difference? OT go up against defense’s better players, and Williams faced and dominated the leagues best DEs. Some of the best sack artists the game has ever seen in their primes!! Highlights of Williams two years of dominance were games where he put Reggie White (in his prime) to his back 2-3 times a game, punch blocked Derrick Thomas with one hand, and dominating each of his counterparts in Dallas’ two Super Bowl runs (protecting Aikman’s backside) including Bruce Smith. … Williams mauled these guys and beat them into submission. Imagine that, the “Minister of Defense” so dominated that it looked like he wanted to cry or at least give up. What was that the 93′ Thanksgiving Day game?
So I will give Allen credit he was an awesome OG. But comparing him to the best OT that most of us have ever seen?? Tackles to guards? There is no mistaking why tackles have much more value and are far more covetted … and Williams was the best I have ever seen.
LA was a Probowl Left Tackle. Left Tackle is the money position out of the two tackle spots.
Uh, that would be Jimmy Smith, not Williams.
Cash,
He got his rep as a OG. In any case, if you had the choice of Erik Williams in his prime or Allen in his prime for one year, there is no consideration here. Williams hands down!! … IMO Williams brutalized one of the best DEs to ever play in White (embarrassed him) and dominated his position like no one had seen at that time. On the other hand, Allen got a lot of noterity from chasing down a defender on Monday Night Footabll (not from punishing blocks) and being a Cowboy during some good years. Allen is/was overrated as being the “last piece” of the Cowboys offensive line that dominated in the 90’s. Great player … don’t get me wrong. But put Allen on mediocre Falcon’s team, Cardinal’s team, Ram’s team and he probably gets lost in the shuffle. If you put Erik Williams at OT for any team during that time and he is still … the best player in the NFL!!
Once they disallowed Eric Williams from being able to throw his right hook head slap he was rendered ineffecitve. I’d rather have a guy like LA who could of played both tackle and guard positions in his prime. The best Tackle on the team generally plays the left side, Williams was a Right Tackle. Give me the guy with the versatility anyday.
Cash:
While I do think that Allen held his own pretty well at Tackle in 1997 and 1998, he was better suited to play Guard and you could and I’m right because in 1998 they drafted the LT that moved him inside.
On the comparison of the 2 guys, Allen also played RT and he wasn’t better than Williams, Williams was just too good, but Allen was a beast at Guard. You can’t compare the two guys, they were rare and pretty good at their respective positions.
Chandus,
If you had a chance to have the player for one year, Williams of 1993 or Allen in his best year? … There would be no hesitation in my choice. Williams made Hall of Fame players look old and ready to retire, and remember White played for 6 seasons after that Thanksgiving Day game and averaged over 10 sacks per. … Also remember who was saying Williams was the best player at any position. It was Irvin, a guy who usually considers himself the best. The “Playmaker” was in awe of Williams because week in and week out Erik made NFL players look defeated. Remember when Madden started the tracking of pancake blocks he started with Williams. … If Reggie White were still alive he’d tell you who was the better player, and he played against both.
Irvin also claims he is the 3rd best reviever ever to play the game. That doesn’t make it so.
My argument is, that while you guys the Erik Williams is the best ever or whatever it is your trying to say, even if for just one year, give me the probowl caliber player than can play 4 different spots along the line. Verstality is far more valuable. If Williams was a Left Tackle perhaps.
EricR:
I do understand your point of view, we’ve been through a RT drought and depending on Petitti it could go on until someone shows up, but what would happen if Kosier isn’t capable of filling Allen’s shoes? What if Peterman is indeed a bust?
Then, I think that you would be in a position to value more what Allen used to bring to the field, I can guarantee you that just like Irvin claims that Williams was the best OLine player that he played with, Emmitt would say the same thing about Allen.
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