Here’s a Twist — Dallas Interested In Michael Turner
Posted: March 31, 2007 @ 11:14 am
The San Diego Union Tribune says the Cowboys are one of four teams interested in Chargers backup RB Michael Turner.
What’s more, each of Dallas, the Jets, the Bills and the Titans,
“appear willing to part at least with a first-round draft pick, but sources indicated the Chargers are still seeking two picks – in the first and third rounds.”
Charger’s GM A.J. Smith added,
“A few of them absolutely have strong interest. Some might be lukewarm, some are on the outside just getting into it,” Smith said. “Where it goes from there, I don’t know. No question, it’s legit.
The Buffalo News confirms the Bills have spoken to the Chargers about Turner.
Here’s the view from Titans country.
Why would teams be so willing to trade a number one for an NFL backup, though admittedly a talented one? Consider this stat:
Over the last two seasons, only two backs selected in the first three rounds - Indianapolis’ Joseph Addai in 2006 and Tampa Bay’s Cadillac Williams in ‘05 - topped 1,000 yards as rookies.
This year’s running backs class looks especially thin. Adrian Peterson shines, but there are questions about second-rated Marshawn Lynch. And there’s a big dropoff after Lynch. With Michael Bush having ankle surgery recently, there may not be a back selected in the second round.
Are we seeing the shadow of Wade Phillips here? His defense had to face Turner every day in practice, so he would know how good Turner really is.
Does this also mean Dallas is shopping, or would shop their current backs should they invest in Turner?
And the draft is still 28 days away.
Comments
137 Responses to “Here’s a Twist — Dallas Interested In Michael Turner”
And is there any reason to believe this? Just another mediot making assumptions and guesses. Who is his source- which Janitor did he talk to?
It’s coming out of San Diego. Look at the wording carefully. I think Turner’s agent is the one of the sources. And Bus Cook is an old, well respected agent. He’s not a holdout guy like the Postons and not a publicity hound like Drew Rosenhaus.
Since it’s not the R.R. I don’t think janitors were consulted.
OK, then which secretary or gate guard did he talk to? And a agent talking up his guy is something they ALL DO.
burmafrd,
Why would the agent name teams if it was a lie?
Cook has to negotiate a long term deal with Dallas if they want Turner. Why would he piss them off?
And if Dallas is not interested in him, one of these days they’ll want one of his players. It makes no business sense to name them or any team by name if there wasn’t something to it.
If this is true, it is VERY TELLING about Dallas’ opinion of Julius Jones and to a lesser degree, MB as a lead back, and to a much lesser extent, their opinion of TT.
You wonder if Dallas would trade JJ before acquiring Turner, otherwise JJ’s value is somewhat diminished.
The off season sure is alot more exciting than it used to be. Your right Wade would know more about him than anyone else. Turner did alot of the short yardage and goal line work which is MBIIIs strength but Julius would seem to have more trade value. What would we do to recoup draft picks lost.
Is this the script for the next M. Night Shyamalan movie?
Call me conservative, but I want no part of this dealio.
Turner is a back up. Never done the whole thing. LT has been very healthy and Turner has never had to carry a big load. Its no suprise to me that his agent would try to talk him up; and Raf- really- outside of the Postons, what agents really have made serious enemies in the league? And look at what they did- they pretty much had to WORK at it. No one can afford to carry a grudge anymore- at least over minor things like claiming some teams are interested when maybe there is no real indication that that has occured. Asking about a price on a trade for a player is probably VERY common- you may not have any serious thoughts about going through with a trade but what does asking cost you?It also tells you something about how that team does business and how they value picks- always a good thing to know before the draft. So I do not buy this as indicating the BOys are panting for Turner and want to trade JJ right now. AND remember- TURNER is on his last year as well. It would cost some big bucks to lock him up- and if we don’t we are in the same boat as we are with JJ- last year on a contract.
burmafrd,
Did you read all the story? Nobody is trading for Turner unless they get a long term deal locked up with him.
Info from Wikipedia. Turner went to Northern Illinois University. He played against teams like E. Michigan and W. Illinois. Amazingly had good rushing yards against those powers. He 5′10″ and 237 lbs. Started 1 NFL game against the Chiefs and ran for 87 yds. He has good stats as a back up to LD for the Chargers, but the Cowboys have a guy with good stats backing up JJ.
Wikipedia says the Packers offered their #16 first round for Turner and SD’s #30 in return.
SOB may have seen him in practice every day, but I don’t want to give up two high picks for someone that has started one game for 87 yds against the Chiefs.
The price of that trade is well known. With Wade on the staff I think it carries alot of merrit. Turner faced Wades D every day and Im sure Wade knows the skills a starter RB needs. If LT played on KC he’d be the starter. I know this is where someone wants to bring up Hambrick but Emmitt was let go not because of Hambrick but BP needed to make the Cowboys his. When ever a new coach comes in strong personalities are let go unless they are at the peak of their greatness. You have to put your personality on the team. I also dont recall any panting going on.
I think I agree with most of you. Backups often look a lot better in their limited roles than they would as a featured back.
Turner’s combination of size and speed is enticing, but he’s not guaranteed to do a whole lot more than Troy Hambrick.
Remember that guy? He was a pretty big guy, ran a 4.33, and averaged over 5 yards per carry as a backup.
Seemed like the real deal, but…we all know what happened the next season.
NICKL,
When did Troy Hambrick ever run a 4.33? He was a plodder. I think Paul Zimmerman made the painful but deadly accurate comment that he watched several game tapes of Hambrick and never saw him make a cut.
Alright everyone untie their panties. Its just another idea being kicked around. Its what progressive thinkers do. you cant think big if you set limitations. I really cant see where we pull this trade. We need more future starters in wings and cant get them without draft picks.
Squidlo,
If “Wade knows the skills a starter RB needs,” why didn’t Bill Parcells know?
It’s pretty difficult to translate the skills of a backup to the starting role.
Think about all of the backups who seem to play much better than the starters on their respective teams.
When Hambrick was campaigning to take over as the lead back, he said something to the effect of “go ahead, try and find another back my size who can run a 4.33″
I doubt he ever did it, but he claimed to.
Who says BP didnt know. He got rid of Emmitt cause it was time not because of Hambrick. Its not hard hard to translate the skills of a starter. Hambrick didnt run a 4.3 in the 20 yd dash. He was a temperary fan favorite who the fans thought should be the starter. Emmitt was old and he needed to go. It was his team and he was the dominant personality.
What did you want him to say, Im slow and overweight and run like a sissy.
in response to #19: yes, that’s exactly what I wanted him to say
Hard to make money that way.LOL
NICKL,
LOL! good one. Yes, he probably should have said that.
so…I’ve been trying to find the quote, but can’t. I’ll keep looking.
This is all I’ve found so far, but do any of you remember that, too?
“And don’t think for one minute that Parcells isn’t aware of the 4.3-second 40 a 235-pound Hambrick reportedly ran during at this time last year.”
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fantasy/football/news/2003/07/17/back_page/
Okay gents,
Get your draft charts out. I’m going to play devil’s advocate and see if Dallas can pull this deal off and improve their draft status at the same time.
1. Right now they have Jones/Barber. A good combination. But know that they liked Michael Turner the year they drafted Jones. And that their HC has seen him every day against his defense.
2. Now, let’s see if Dallas can meet San Diego’s price and at least tread water in terms of points.
Smith said he would take a 1st this year and a 3rd next year or a 3rd this year and a first in ‘08.
Let’s say Dallas accepts option two.
They have the 87th pick, which is worth 155 points. And let’s say they assume they play better this year and get a lower draft pick. Not crazy, but let’s say instead of picking 22nd , as they are this year, they pick 26th next year.
The 26th is worth 700 points, so Dallas values Turner at 855 points, or the 20th pick overall.
3. How could they get back 855 points?
Somebody said Green Bay had offered to swap 1st rounders with S.D. in exchange for Turner. They pick 16th and S.D. picks 30th, a difference of 380 points. That’s the 52nd pick, just one higher than Dallas, who picks 53rd.
What’s more, that’s the highest valuation I’ve seen for a RB this offseason, more than Thomas Jones or Willis McGahee.
Now, let’s say, for argument’s sake, that Dallas asks Buffalo and Green Bay for their 2nds in return for Jones. Buffalo picks 43rd, which is 470 points. Green Bay picks 47th, which is 430 points.
Assuming you get a taker, you need to find about 380 to 400 points or so to recoup what you gave up to get Turner.
After these moves Dallas now has a 1st, 22nd overall and two 2nds, the 43rd (lets say for argument’s sake that Buffalo bites) and the 53rd and no 3rd, which you gave up for Turner.
If you can recoup the ‘08 #1, you can call it a wash.
I would offer the second #2, the 53rd for an ‘08 #1 and hope that a team like Washington, which is desperate for picks now and which does this type of thing (they did it last year for Rocky McIntosh) bites.
Then, you swap your ‘08 #1 for somebody elses ‘08 #1, swap Turner for Jones and most importantly, MOVE UP TEN SPOTS in round two.
Look at the mocks that go two to three rounds deep.
There’s a significant drop off in mid round two. There are lots of guys in the top half I like — Anthony Spencer, Justin Blalock, Arron Sears, Brandon Meriweather, Marcus McCauley — who will go in the 35-45 range.
OTOH, there is nobody I particularly like at 53. Lamarr Woodley, Drew Stanton maybe, but the real intriguing guys, IMO are ten to twelve spots up.
Dallas could come out of day one with something like:
Meachem, Meriweather, Turner, or
Nelson, Blalock, Turner, or
Meachem, Sears, Turner,
or some permutation of these.
There are a lot of moving parts, most notably finding somebody who would trade a #1 next year for a #2 now. If you can find another Buffalo, as Dallas did in ‘04, this deal could work, assuming Jerry doesn’t go ape over losing his 3rd rounder this year as the price of swapping Jones for Turner.
I just think BP knew what he had in Hambrick. He just had other positions that needed more help. Cant rebuild a team in 1 year. It was us the fans that thought we had something in Hambrick and when he sucked we blamed BP.
Hambone was a lot like TT in that he had a lot of speed but could not cut worth a damn. Except that TT is all round the better guy and team mate.
Thats one heck of a complicated trade Raf. You would really have to want to to do it. Now maybe Wade is in love with Turner; he has to convince JJ. Then he has to talk to Turners agent to find out what it would take to lock him up. That is a whole lot of moving parts.
I dont think I could be a wheeler dealer. I would be nervous as hell til it all unfolded. But I could see JJ try to pull that off, he lives for those things.
burmafrd,
Yes, a lot of moving parts. But if Dallas has in fact called San Diego about Turner then you know they’re investigating some of these moving parts already.
Even if they stand pat with Jones I think finding a way to move up 8-12 spots in round two is something they would be investigating. There are some really good players in the 35-45 range, guys we know they like, most notably Blalock and Spencer.
I would hate to sit on my hands and watch those guys drop off the board just in front of you, as Daryn Colledge did last year.
Raf, that was very good. I said a few post earlier that big thinkers dont put limitations on their thoughts. When you first posted this thread I really thought you were stimulating conversation but after reading that senario and how it plays out you can see that its risky but could work out. Seems to be a big if on trading this years #2 for someones #1 next year. But drafting is probably like taking drugs and the high of it all makes you do things you wouldnt normally do. I think you need to get JJ on the phone.
i would swap 1rst rd picks with the chargers for turner then trade julius at the very best, if the boys give the 22 pick for turner straight up i`m defecting…unless turner runs for 200 yds in the opener, now about hambrick in hindsight we should allowed emmitt to remain a cowboy and traded hambrick an his 4.33 40 yd dash to the cards in what was an ultimate slap in the face to emmitt i am very sorry to admit i was in favour of the move at the time.
squid,
Here’s the deal. The absolute last 1st round pick is worth 590 points. Any taker gets you points back.
Or, you play San Diego and say: okay, I’ll take your 3rd this year and your 2nd next year instead of an ‘08 1st.
That’s the same amount of points.
There are ways of getting creative.
Raf, I know the drafting point system has taken some hits but could you or did you worked out that trade without it. I feel its a good guide and helps you work out these type senario’s
Capebreton, I was in favor of letting Emmitt go but for more selfish reasons. I just didnt want to see my favorite Cowboy of alltime as an average or less than average player. I couldnt do it with MJ either. I want to remember them dominanting. I know its pretty shallow.
I do not see us going after Turner unless Wade truly wants him badly. Now as regards moving up in the second rd, that has appeal. I agree that trading down in the first and trading up in the second would probably get us two players better then what we would get now with the picks as they are. I think the falloff after 50 is steep.
bumafrd,
aparently wade does want him, along with a guy named jerry jones. or else we wouldnt be talking about this right now
Once again this is all speculation based on unnamed SOURCES. To say that this means JJ and Wade are on the phones now is really stretching it.
I dont think its a stretch at all to believe the Cowboys made inquiries into a player our HC knows well. It is speculation to believe a deal is in the works. The fact that an inquiry has been made seems to upset you. Relax, there is a whole hell of alot more coming.
Burmafrd,
The press in Buffalo and Nashville confirm the Bills and Titans parts of the story.
So that makes the bigger story more plausible.
And why are you so upset by it? I’m sure they called San Diego, if only to chew on some scenarios. That doesn’t mean that a trade is imminent or that Turner is negotiating with Dallas.
But Dallas almost certainly inquired about him.
well the sources have been made the reporters have said it has been turners very own agent, who unless it was true wouldnt be saying it in the first place because he wouldnt wanna step on any ones feet. we have there former coach which also adds to speculation so if anyone knows anything about turner it will be wade.. i think theres TONS of truth to this rumor, however it actually happening or not is a long shot due to his asking price.. and imnot so sure julius isnt the long term back were looking for.. if he plays with the fire under his ass he played the last game in seattle then i would love to have jj back, but i havent seen that fire from him too often
I just see so much of this so called ABSOLUTELY TRUE bs. I do not doubt that calls are made all the time; but to say that someone is on the phone trying to get it done now- I really doubt it. Now if it was the day before the draft, then it seems much more likely. Or the day of the draft.
burmafrd. no ones saying that jerry is tryin tog et a deal done right now, as raf said, prolly just mulling things over and chewing on scenarios. the door is still wide open for anything or nothing to happen, no reason to speculate on either side of the fence just yet
By the way- agents blow smoke all the time. Never take what they say as gospel.
burmafrd,
It’s more than a rumor. It’s a story printed in three different cities. It’s a worthwhile story.
And who on here claims it’s going to happen? Name one person who thinks this is 50% certain to go down or 70% or any percent, or that Dallas is the front runner, etc.
But if Dallas has inquired, and by all appearances they have, then we’re going to speculate on it.
THAT’S WHAT BLOGS ARE FOR!
“By the way- agents blow smoke all the time. Never take what they say as gospel.”
Well duh, burmafrd.
Don’t speak to us like we’re all seven years old.
burmafrd, i was just tryin to give you reasonable answers to the questions you had, but aparently you dont wanna listen to anyhting anyone has to say because all your saying is, its smoke screen, no thappening, BS, and dont listen to what agents ever have to say (even though this one happens to be one of the most respected in the league and his last name isnt rosenhaus)
raf i recall a couple years ago you were a pretty unconfrontational person on this blog, anymore, i have noticed if someone is acting like a retard or saying dumb shit you have no problem telling them to shut the $#%@ up (in nicer words of course)
This is crazy talk. Very few players (if any) are worth two high draft picks. SD wants a first and a third for a back up?? I’d keep Julius and MB#. Thank you.
I want to see how JJ runs without Tuna in charge. He looked best in his first year - very natural. I think BP made him tentative.
scn, in all honesty thats prolly what we will end up doing. but as of right now, it doesnt hurt to turn over a couple rocks to see what you might find
I would even give 1 high draft pick for Turner. A 3rd maybe. But nothing more especially when we have 2 backs that combined for 1600 yards last year!
Oh my gosh please dont tell me BP was on Jerry’s head to. Please dont tell me everyone in our organization is a mindless drone. Or is BP the greatest psycologist of all time. The real problem is BP is in to many bloggers head.
scn couldnt agree with you more, but again,doesnt hurt to turn over all the rocks just to see what you might be able to come up with. now if jerry were able to pull off a trade like raf had proposed then i would have no problem trading the picks cuz essnetially (points wise) we lose nothing
scn,
Unless you’re willing to give Jones a long term extension now and unless you’re convinced Barber is an every down back, it’s your DUTY to explore other RB options.
Otherwise, you could have a giant backfield hole in ‘08.
Dallas is clearly doing their due diligence. This is what good organizations are SUPPOSED TO DO.
Yes, nothing is likely to come of it, but leaks like this should make people feel good, that the team is looking under every rock and game planning every possible option.
Why so much bile?
agreed, i dont see why people are upset that were exploring our options..
corey dillion was serviceable, had a lot of yardsin 05, and then they drafted maroney.. this is what happens, this is what good franchises do.. they plan ahead for the next best peice of the puzzle.horrible ones that are always picking at the top of the draft order dont seem to do these things well, for example the raiders, huston, detroit, and cleavland. they dont turn over every rock, and then you have the ones who turn over every rock and take all the bad players in FA such as wasington.. bad franchises make bad moves. simply by looking at other options that have become available shouldnt be frowned upon.
raf have you ever thought about making a thread up like “cowboys just trade three first rounders for jon kitna” just to see the reaction people would give?? i think it would be funny, people are talking how dumb it is for dallas to exploring options, i would love to see those people under those circumstances, tradeing so much for a garbage player. lol
I’d only give up one first for Kitna. I think if you’re going to give up 3 firsts for a player, it better be a guy with a superbowl ring (Trent Dilfer?)
Squidlo97
Did you say,
“Turner did alot of the short yardage and goal line work”
????
LT set the TD record last year while Turner only had 2 TDs.
Let me get this straight the Bills shipped off “what you talking about Willis” out for a couple of 3rd rounders and then give their 1st and 3rd for Turner. I don’t think anyone will give up that much.
Rafael,
This deal is a lot like yours but,
Turner is worth a second next or next years first. Can we move Jones for a second round swap with GB and next years second? I think both teams would be interested in that.
Than we ship next years first and swap third rounder’s with SD for the Burner. They have an extra compensatory third round pick.
That gives us Turner, Ross, Staley and Johnnie Lee on day one or fill in your wish list.
And net year 2 second round picks next year to make up for not having a number one.
Wasn’t there a lot of speculation a while ago about trading Roy? Supposedly that came from some agent or some so called SOURCE as well. Well that got printed in three or four cities as well- now we all know it was total BS. That is what happens this time of year. I hear this all the time- and it almost always ends up meaning nothing. I guess we have a choice: blog about this sort of thing, or mocks. Neither of which is worth a rusty nail.
speaking of Roy, (way off topic) but here is a great article by someone who actually talked to the media shy Williams. Seems the reason we haven’t heard much from the face of the franchise is he was pissed at Bill.
http://www.star-telegram.com/332/story/54102.html
burmafrd,
The Roy rumor came from the Ranch Report. Those folks are notorious for using the Valley Ranch janitors as “sources.”
The Turner is being shopped story comes from Kevin Acee, the Chargers beat writer. The NFL’s site, the people in Buffalo and Tennessee all say Turner is being shopped and teams are interested.
The latter qualfies as FACT. The Chargers GM is on record saying there’s “legitimate interest” though he wouldn’t say the teams.
Dallas is one of those teams. Now, are they one of the “seriously interested” ones, or one of those “on the outside looking in.”
Probably the latter.
So, are you saying that because the
Ranch Report makes stuff up that suddenly all stories that use sources are wrong?
Pu-leeeze.
And what should I do for a new headline? Just leave up a stale thread from four days ago?
You don’t like the material, don’t post. Don’t read. It’s that simple.
But saying we shouldn’t speculate about a legitimate news story is silly.
Ah, poor Roy.
Sorry dude, but when you get the big money and you got HUGE money, you can’t afford a thin skin.
Especially when your reputation is being “an enforcer.”
Suck it up and play. I couldn’t care a what about what you have to say.
I think the point was he had been sucking it up the last 3 years. I dont recall one story or interview with him where he complained at all about the system or anything else. I dont read that story as whining either. I think he is more happy with how he will be used now that he has *fingers crossed* some actual help back there.
burmafrd,
The great thing is that 100’s of people like to talk about mocks and trade rumors during the football off-season.
Rafael,
Keep up the great work; this is the first place I check for legitimate cowboy news and insider information. In my opinion that is why this site is so great.
My whole point is how do we KNOW that the BOYS are one of the teams interested? What credible source says that? We PROBABLY are- but that is a long way from saying without a doubt at all.
Now as regards Roy and his rant.
Sorry- I do not have a whole lot of sympathy. Frankly Roy did not play well this year in a lot of games; he did not - to ME- leave it all out there on the field. So that -to ME- pretty much negates ANYTHING he has to say.
nickle,
for sure, johnson for 3 first rounders, ill take that to the bank any day! lol thank you for getting the humor in my post. anywho, roy, isnt the type of guy to leave anything on the feild, but in all honesty he just wasent that good last year.. all players have weaknesses, roys weakness is very simple to uncover when he doesnt have help back there. i highly doubt he half assed anything at any point in time.. never did he say here, burress/stallworthe/santana moss.. have a touchdown on me” he busted his ass play after play but again, it is fairly easy for an offense to catch a guy who isnt very good in coverage off gaurd as it is. its even worse for a guy who has zero help back there. roy is an amazing talent. So often do we here players like merriman have one specialty (getting sacks) and all i hear is how great the player is.. roy is that same type of player, he is feared by every single WR in the league and most TE’s and all i hear is he is over rated. well im sorry, to be as feared and respected as roy is over the middle means he must be doing somthing right.
Kingea, I didnt mean to slip in goal line. I remember someone responding to Marty saying LT was the greatest of all time. The guy took him to task by saying if he was the greatest of all time then why does he pull him for Turner in short yardage situations. I think I added the goalline, thinking that was shortyardage but when a guy has that many TDs he didnt come out. Sorry
Honestly I will say right out front that I DON’T think he left it all out there on the field. Not physically, maybe, but at the least mentally. Bad angles, sloppy tackling, etc.
If you’re interested in the Jones-Turner debate, here are links to their 2004 draft profiles:
Jones: http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/julius_jones
Turner: http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/michael_turner
Ive said it before but I dont think we played to Roys strengths. BP is/was a conservative guy who because of a young QB and many young players on D was even more conservative. WP will get our moneys worth out of Roy. More pressure will cause more bad throws which will lead to picks and BIG hits.
burmafrd,
i agree, there are thigns he could have done better but over all roy was roy.. he did amazing things and did some terrible thigns, its the same thigns he has been doing since he has been int he league, but with a good safety such as woody they were able to mask the terrible things make make roy look like the incredible player he was.. i dont think he left anythign behind, mentally physically or anyhting else that may cross your mind.. he just didnt have a great year. i expect him to have a better one however with someone who can at least semi cover.i would love to get merriweather and let roy loose. i think that would be awesome but again, just my opinoin
I don’t get how all of you and the entire cowboys organization are so blind as to how to use Roy. It seems like most of you only consider 3 options (trade, move to ILBthink we should move Roy to NT for the following 3 reasons:
1. We already have a crowded ILB position
2. I don’t think we’d get a lot for him in a trade. Who wants a LB who couldn’t beat out Bradie James?
3. Ferguson is getting pretty old
4. He’s a big hitter and can probably command double and triple teams every play. He’d REALLY be close to the line of scrimmage
I accidentally sent that off before it was ready
the 3 options you all DO consider are the two listed AND getting a better FS to play alongside him.
Also, it should be 4 reasons
nickl,
lovin where your heads at today
I’m hopefull Dallas’ interest in Turner is more subversive than anything, leaking interest in a player to spur other suitors to jump in. Teams (and businesses, governments, and women) do it all the time.
I’m still on that Adrian Peterson cloud. If Dallas is too, then they need Michael Turner to go to Buffalo in order for there to be any hope of Peterson dropping. Inquiring about the trade would help the desired result to occur much more than wishing or crossing fingers.
At the same time, if Dallas is showing interest in Turner, I’d think Julius’ value just went down for any subsequent trade. The position they could have taken–we have a future star(ter) in Barber–is totally blown out of the water now.
Damn, Rafael. Full of piss and vinegar, aren’t we.
I agree with what your saying, but…
I liked Turner when he came out. In fact, I wanted the Cowboys to draft him.
BUT THIS DEAL IS CRAZY. Its hard to believe there’s validity.
I pray it does not go down.
Hopefully Wade is just helping San Diego out and driving up the price.
I haven’t responded in a while but I have a couple opinions in this blog that I would like to expel.
First, Roy Williams can, will, is the man. He just needs to be in the right situation and I believe that this year he will be in just that. I think we will see collectively a whole lot better “TEAM” on Defense this year with the already improved members and forthcoming signings. Also I think WP will make this defense a Force to be reconed with. I think we will see a little revived spirit in our “Big D”.
Second, This spectacle on signing the “BACK-UP” running back from San Diego for high picks this year and next, and give up our already proven back system which combined for 1700 yards last year, is totally hysterical in the least. And with the already seemingly improved O-Line, the running game should be even better. As I have said in an earlier blog…Why fix what isn’t broken? JJ is a very good back (great bursts and speed when he sees the hole) and is adequate to say the least. I don’t think we should gamble and sell the world just for the chance for a Reggie Bush or another Emmitt Smith (which I don’t think we will see in our life time again). If we really want to improve our Running game, I say we work at it in the draft, NOT by gambling away our draft picks…Call me conservative, but this is how I feel.
We have much greater needs and wants, that WILL effect us much greater next year than Roy Williams and JJ. NT for example, must be a need going into the draft.
Anybody agree with me?
Just read the Cry Baby Roy Williams story.
All I can say is…Oh no. Terrell Owens is starting to break up the team….its Terrell Owens fault.
Shot Up Roy.
I wish you were traded.
sgtcwby-
I more than agree with you.
If this trade were to happen, I think it will end up just as bad (well, almost as bad) as the Joey Galloway deal.
Donny,
I just have one thing to say… STOP being a Hater!
In defense and dispute of Rafael
I have never seen Rafael put up a worthless thread and knowing him the little bit I do, I dont ever expect him too. He is the best man out there covering the Cowboys. The best.
in dispute, I dont think the Cowboys should be exploring other RB options, especially not this one.
SGT COWBOY-
NO. I have a lot of angst and this is where I let it all go until I am kicked off or…….
just maybe……just maybe
a new blog comes into the works via
Rafael ad Raul
that has a lot more functions.
RUMOR STARTED
Donny,
Good response. You can continue on now.
LOL Let it all out…Breathe..Breathe.. Good now you shall go into a deep trance… You love Roy Williams, you think he is the best SS ever to play Football…Now when I click my fingers you shall wake up and not remember anything. Snap!
I have never been all that worried about Roy and I think fans overreact to his failings, but what I read sounded a lot like the kinds of things that came out of Lavar Arrington after Marty Schottenheimer was fired (after a year) and Marvin Lewis left (also after a year).
After the coaches who required discipline were kicked to the curb, Arrington was back to being Mr. Freelance and quickly became a liability even the Redskins couldn’t look past.
What do they trade? The Cowboys trade their 1st round pick for Turner.
What do they do with with Julius Jones? Is there a trade partner to take JJ? What do the cowboys get?
Some part of me thinks that the Cowboys need an enlightend decision and an overhaul. I think some of the dissatisfaction with the last draft that many fans felt was that the Cowboys did not add any personality to the team.
Well the Cowboys added solid depth.
But, damnit, they need more than that, they need a personality that converts 3 & goal. Is that the guard? The Running Back? or the Qb?
When the Cowboys got rid of Quincy Carter, after I had worried about his delepoment. etc etc, I simply felt relieved I didn’t have to worry about that losing way.
Makes me think I could get accept a big trade, but this trade would have to be Dallas Mavericks big.
Is Turner very good? I have never seen him run to the best of my recollection.
Would SD want one of our RBs in return b/c they’d need a back-up?
The fact that WP has such intimate knowledge of Turner makes me think this is more serious than I normally would (even though I don’t think it will happen). Lord knows we saw enough “friends of Bill” roll through here the last few years.
Somet6hing about this all makes me think that the Cowboys are only interested in screwing over a Division Rival, not interested in consumating a trade.
SGT-
I’m not a big fan of ROy anymore. It happened this last year. I loved the guy prior to that but I got tired of his deficiecys and inabilities. Now he cries about being overrated. He is over rated.If he wants to get better start working early. He is working on his charity when he could be working on his job. There are other people to work on his charity like my girlfriend who does that for free. Start working on recognizing patterns, Roy and if you want to suddenly start talking, talk to the players on the field and help line people up as a Safety should. He left that to a Rookie.
I am always for screwing a division rival. It adds a little spice to life. Actually, Really- would wade know Turner all that much more then anyone watching all his game films?
Sure he sees him in practice, but is that really that much more?
I was looking at the Herschel Walker trade the other day and was amazed at the sheer volume of deals Dallas made AFTER they obtained all those picks and players from Minnesota.
I’m going to list some of them here. Keep them in mind when you say that Dallas has too many irons in the fire, or that the Turner deal has too many potential moving parts.
I think utimately nothing will come of the Turner inquiry on Dallas’ part, but Jerry did say he wanted to have more fun. And stuff like this is part of the fun I think he misses:
1. On April 19, 1990 Dallas traded Minnesota’s 2nd pick and Kansas City’s 3rd pick in 1990 to San Francisco for RB Terrence Flagler, DE Daniel Stubbs, SF 3rd round pick in 1990 and SF 11th round pick in 1990.
2. On April 22, 1990 (draft day), Dallas traded Minnesota’s 1st pick in 1990 and SF 3rd pick in 1990 to Pittsburgh for Pitt’s 1st round pick (#21 and #81 for #17) and selected RB Emmitt Smith.
3. Dallas traded Minnesota’s 6th round pick, an 8th round pick from NE, a 9th round pick from Seattle, a 10th round pick from Indianapolis and an 11th round pick from San Francisco to the LA Raiders for LA’s fifth round choice in 1990, DB Stan Smagala (#122 overall).
4. On September 3, 1990 Dallas traded Minnesota’s 2nd round pick in 1991 (#38 overall) and its own 5th round pick in 1991 (#105 overall) to Houston for RB Alonzo Highsmith.
5. On April 19, 1991 (draft) Dallas traded Minnesota’s 1st pick, Dallas’ 2nd, DB Ron Francis, LB David Howard and LB Eugene Lockhart to New England for New England’s 1st pick (#1 overall) and selected DT Russell Maryland.
6. On Sept. 16, 1991 Dallas traded LB Jesse Solomon to New England (who sent him to TB) for New England’s 6th round pick (#149 overall) in 1992.
7. On April 26, 1992 (draft) Dallas traded Minnesota’s 1st and 3rd round picks (#13 and #71 overall) to New England for NE 1st, 2nd and 4th round picks (#19, #37 and #104 overall). Dallas traded the #19 and #104 picks to Atlanta for Atlanta’s 1st and 5th round picks (#17 and #120 overall). Dallas traded Minnesota’s 2nd round pick (#40 overall) to Kansas City for 2nd and 3rd round picks (#47 and #74 overall). Dallas traded the #47, #74 picks to Washington for a 2nd and a 3rd round pick (#56 and #58 overall). Dallas traded the #56 pick to Detroit for 3rd, 4th and 9th round picks (#82, #109 and #250 overall). [end]
And you think my proposed trade for Michael Turner is complicated?
Bwahahahahahahahaha!
Raf,
I also note that of all that trading, only 2 of the players named were any good…Emmett and Russell.
burmafrd,
Wade’s guys had to stop Turner every day in practice. If he was making them look foolish during scrimmages, I’m sure Wade Phillips would know about it.
Digger,
And they overpaid mightily for Russell. However, I think you understate the case a bit. The players they got in ‘92 are not on there. The wheeling and dealing got them Kevin Smith and Darren Woodson. Not bad I would say.
On the whole, however, I do think Dallas overtraded for their end results.
But let’s remember, this was Saint Jimmy at the helm.
But that was Jimmy as well. I think it almost became a competition between the two. I really do not see Wade as wanting that much action; and I doubt that a much older and wiser Jerry will be as willing. NOT to mention that there are a LOT LESS DRAFT CHOICES NOW.
burmafrd,
Correct on all your points.
Which tells me Phillips must have told the front office that Turner is Earl Campbell Jr.
Because Dallas isn’t exactly hurting at RB.
Just how many reps does a backup RB get? I doubt they get that many. So I doubt that it happened all that much in practice. I don’t think that Turner is all that great; if he was looking SO good in practice, the word would get around and other teams would be wanting to trade for him. I have heard NOTHING about any teams wanting turner before this year. NOT A THING.
If Turner is all that; and Wade wants him so bad- then why has this all of a sudden happened now? If Wade wanted him badly, wouldn’t there have been something going on long before now? This has all popped up in the last day or so. Wade has been in the saddle now for almsot two months. If he wanted Turner that bad, word would have gotten out. Sorry, I really doubt that is the case.
burmafrd sez,
“if he was looking SO good in practice, the word would get around and other teams would be wanting to trade for him. ”
You did see that FOUR teams are after him right now? And that Green Bay was sniffing around before?
Before Smith tendered him at a 1 and a 3 there were reports in the New York papers that both the Jets and the Giants were going to sign him to offer sheets if his tender was just a #1.
What do you think is happening right now? Lots of other teams are trying to trade for him. They’re trying to talk S.D. down from a 1 and a 3 to a one.
So to answer your question, if five teams are willing to deal #1s for him and the sixth was willing to deal a high 2nd, then word must indeed have gotten around that he’s good.
Isnt that called churning for players. Jimmy said in his book that the Cowboys were so depleted that the fastest way to up grade the team was to roll as many players as he could though here. Working hard produces luck. You should try to upgrade weaknesses first but you should look every where for every thing. Remember also if JJ is doing this he is staying away from draft eveluation and that IMO is a good thing.
To take it farther, why is this happening in the last few days:
1. Phillips had to take some time and watch tape of all Cowboys games from at least the last year and maybe the last two years to understand his talent base;
2. Teams had to wait until a month ago , when free agency started, to see what Turner’s tender would be;
3. The musical chairs of free agency running backs had to play itself out first.
4. Teams then had to gather their scouting reports on what the draft class running backs looked like and see what was left.
3 and 4 just finished in the last two weeks.
The rumors about Turner came from the league meetings this week, which is when the first pre-draft rumors start to spill out.
And to add to the previous post, you did notice that the Jets are still listed as wanting Turner, even after they’ve traded for Thomas Jones?
He must be good.
But wait, there’s more as the Ginsu knife ads say:
A. To the knock that “he’s a backup.” He’s LADAINIAN TOMLINSON’S backup. Which means he could be the 2nd best RB in football and he would still be a backup.
B. Marion Barber is a backup too. What do you think he would bring if Dallas put him on the block tomorrow?
Burmafrd, Backup RB get a high number of reps and even more when he is backing up a proven stud that has nothing to prove and every reason to stay fresh. What ever goes down wont go down in all likelyhood until draft day when you have an idea of your board. Step away from the kool-aid.
Supposedly all these teams are willing to give up #1s. Really. Some pretty good PROVEN backs over the last two years- McGahee, Edge, ALexander, NONE OF THEM found anyone willing to part with a #1. If someone was willing to part with a #1 NOW- why not last year? If Turner has been SO good why has this not been in the media etc? I just do not believe the BUZZ is really true.
Why would San Diego trade him last year? The buzz started this year because he’s a restricted free agent.
– Magahee has a blown up knee and a bad attitude. He was still traded for a low second;
– James is old. Why would anybody trade for a RB over 30?
– Alexander wanted a huge contract and had lots of wear on his treads. RBs only get big
deals if they’re young, not if they have 1700 carries on their odometers, as Alexander did. He was 29 last year, BTW.
Turner is 25 and has 157 carries on his meter. You pay for *anticipated* performance, not past performance.
Apples and oranges.
Then why have we heard NOTHING about turner from VR? Where are all thoseSOURCES people claim they have?
I just do not beleive the hype. Sounds very fishy to me. Wade went through the team tapes etc BEFORE FA began. If he was so sure he wanted Turner SOME word would have leaked before NOW.
Actually trading him last year would make more sense since then he would not have been on the last year of his contract and the gaining team would not have to come to a deal with him. They could just trade him. If he was so good WORD would get out and teams would have been after him LAST year as well. DID NOT HAPPEN.
All of a sudden Wade is panting to get Turner. All of a sudden Turner is the NEXT GREAT RB with all sorts of teams throwing around first rd draft choices. Just do not see that.
Burmafrd are you tomwillis.
What’s your point, burmafrd,
1. That Dallas didn’t contact San Diego?
2. That Turner sucks eggs?
Come on, man. Draw your line in the sand. Make a prediction.
Is Turner going to be traded or not?
And for what level of pick?
Burmafrd you keep adding quotes that were never said. Nobodys panting except you. Nobody said next great RB except you. Go back to post 66 and nobody said anything about no doubt. DECAF!!
Here are Turners NFL stats: 157 carries for 941 yds 5 tds
he had 20 caries his first year, 57 his second, 80 his third. Not much of a load.
Maybe Dallas has talked to SD. MAYBE. Thats all we MAYBE know. Now some here have us throwing first rd picks at SD; some of us here are claiming Turner is a great back. I just do not see any EVIDENCE that that is true.
Earl Campbell Jr. Wow.
Some good points. Maybe Wade does think Turner is that good. I did want Dallas to draft him and liked him out of College, but this deal seems more risk than reward to me.
Our running attack was pretty damn good last year and could improve with Oline improvements this year. I know you have to consider the future and Jones FreeAgent status but I have a bad feeling about this.
The best point made is that Jerry miss’s some of the fun. I think that may be very true. I hope he curtails himself to good deals and not deals for the fun of it.
What part of hes backing up Ladanian Tomlinson are you not understanding. We arent throwing anything at SD thats what they are asking.
I dont have problem with our running game. Im ready for the damm draft and end some of the speculation. Im ready for some football!!!
Rather informative draft site:
http://www.drafthistory.com/
Rafael-
You mentioned Meachum and said that he would be the most likely player drafted if Dallas used a first on a WR.
The one thing that I read in acouting reports about Meachum that scares me is-
“Is not very tough or physical…Will not work across the middle much….is somewhat of a finesse player” from Scott Wright’s site.
I go back and forth from him to Bowie but I still think it would be more wise to find a WR later.
I cant wait to see Adrian Peterson in the NFL
I was just reading up on him a little.
I always thought vision was the most important aspect of a RB. Look at what Peterson says.
Adrian Peterson
I’ve put up better times in the 40. It was 4.37, but I was really hoping to get in the low 4.3s or maybe even a 4.29.
What aspect of your game are you most proud of?
Peterson: My vision. I really feel like God has blessed me with good vision. Down at the combine they tested my sight. The guy kept looking at me strange and saying that I have very good vision. I wanted to ask him why he kept looking at me like that. (laughs) He asked someone to, “Come over and look at this kid’s eyes while they focus in on the object.” He had to call somebody over. Maybe God has blessed me with a little more than a normal pair of eyes.
I dont think people think much of Walter Payton’s kid as a running back so maybe Earl Campbell Jr. is an apt description. j/k
APB for bushpilot….
Where are you bushpilot?
Dallas won’t trade JJ. They won’t get Turner and give up #22. They will spend #22 on DE/OLB Carriker/Moss/Spencer. Perhaps even a cornerback on the first day like Eric Wright or Michael Coe. Then come December 2007 they will thank their lucky stars that they further solidified the defense as they prepare themselves to go deep into the playoffs.
This has every bit as much credibility as that which started this thread:
http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84811
They have Julius Jones, MBIII, Tyson Thompson, Lousaka Polite and Oliver Hoyte in the backfield. They can afford to spend 1 out of 10 picks on a running back come April so it looks pretty good guys. No need for Turner. Let someone else gamble. Dallas did enough of that in the late 90s.