Churning to a Better Place — Grantham Will Improve the D-line
Posted: January 28, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
Lost in the massive exodus of personnel people and assistant coaches to Miami was the hiring of Todd Grantham to replace Kacy Rogers. There has been some criticism of Grantham in the threads, based on his league-worst ranking while serving as Cleveland’s defensive coordinator last year. That’s unfair. Gratham is being hired to coach the linemen, not run the Cowboys scheme. And a look at his body of work as a position coach shows he’s more than qualified. He’s overseen top units with the Colts and Texans. He’s worked extensively in the 3-4.
I have it from two different sources that he’ll be an upgrade over Rogers. One told me, “[Grantham's] a very hard worker, is always prepared; he’s very good at teaching techniques. He’s not afraid to get after players.”
This same source told me he thinks the Cowboys linemen will be better pass rushers under Grantham’s tutelage because they’ll have better technique. If he’s right, Chris Canty could take the next step towards stardom.
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First!!
Not first!
I hope so. If he has been in the 3-4 system I cant help but think he will be an upgrade.
I probably one of the few but Im kinda glad for the coaching turnover. I want to see more fire and agression from our D.
“criticism of Grantham in the threads, based on his league-worst ranking while serving as Cleveland’s defensive coordiator ”
Nobody ever claimed I was fair. I just latch onto facts and post them out of their context.
I’m not familiar with Grantham other than he was a good enough position coach for promotion to coordinator. That’s good enough for me.
i dont get why people are saying wr in the 1st round.yes welost a lil when TO went down but to me we need another quality CB 1st. henry is injured alot whether hes injury prone or bad luck IDK but its every year. i say CB first trade the second 1st and a carp or some thing comparable for roy williams from detroit.
of course i dont follow college that much so i dont have the insight alot of you guys have.
Let’s see how the WRs run at the combine before claiming none are worth our first round pick. But today, I like Roy Williams better too.
Speaking of running at the combine, CB Jack Ikegwuonu tore his ACL. Is he worth a second day pick with the hopes of converting him to FS?
To regress a bit…Agree with Raf’s assessment..
I think media and perhaps Scotts put too much stocks on how a player does on combine…!
As Raf mentioned on one of his previous posting… Need to go with whole body of work of a player’s college career.
I know you will see bunch of guy’s stocks go up and down b/c how fast they run 40 yd, or how high they jump, etc.. I suggest referring to how that particular player did during his career.. After all, he ran just as fast or jump just as high when he was playing..! But, how did all these measurable (at Combine) really came to play during his college career?? Surely we all know of draft picks with supper measurables which were nothing but a big BUST. Just my two cents.
yehti,
“i dont get why people are saying wr in the 1st round.”…”…trade the second 1st and a carp or some thing comparable for roy williams from detroit.”
Isn’t that getting a WR with a first round pick?
I did a little digging on Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie last night.
Cromartie is the cousin of San Diego’s Cromartie. I had heard that, but I wasn’t sure.
Prior to the Senior Bowl, scouts knew DRC excelled in zone coverage. They wanted to see if he could hold up against better competiton in man coverage. He answered that bell with authority.
Some scouts do see DRC as a FS while others see him as a CB. The scouts that project him to FS are concerned about his skinny legs, and they worry he might not hold up at CB from a physical standpoint. That is why he got those reps at FS.
DRC was very physcial at Mobile, and he answered those questions for many scouts. However, you wonder how his lean lower body will affect his draft status.
“I have been working out with that guy, and that dude is an athlete”.
Early Doucet (on DRC)
At times during the year at TSU games, as many as five scouts would watch DRC practice and play the games. At least two or three were at every game.
Here are the teams that have shown heavy interest before the Senior Bowl:
S.F.
NY Jets
Carolina
Jacksonville
New Orleans
Other notes:
Tracy Porter should run in the
4.35-4.40 range according to Mel Kiper. He probably has their spring times.
Leodis McKelvin should run in the 4.38 range.
I think you will see at least eight cornerbacks selected in round one.
In no order but close:
1. Leodis McKelvin
2. Mike Jenkins
3. Aquib Talib
4. Reggie Smith
5. Tracy Porter
6. Antione Cason
7. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
8. Charles Godfrey
Godrey is big, strong, fast, and has upside. I can absolutely see Green Bay take him at the end of round one if the run occurs like I think it will.
Brandon Flowers is the wildcard.
Look for these guys to go in the early second to mid-second round:
Brandon Flowers
Victor Harris
Justin King
Trae Williams
Joe Burnett
Teams will be scraping for small school sleepers by the third round.
2/3 of a players worth should come from what he does in games. the rest from interviews and the combine. All too many have that reversed and that is why there are so many busts.
WR & CB are equal needs IMO.
I would not be upset if either or were chosen first.
The reason I chose WR with 22 and a CB with 28 is the fact that WR has far less depth in this draft as CB does.
Among draft scouts, some with very credible opinions, Malcolm Kelly, James Hardy, and Limas Sweed will ALL be legitimate #1’s.That being said the combine numbers may influence that.
Of course the speed numbers will influence decisions but all we can do now is go on what we see.
Remember, Limas Sweed was once considered a top 12 pick and has only slipped due to his wrist injury which is now healed.
Rodgers Cromartie was the best player at the senior boiwl but should be there at 28. If not, Tracy Porter and Brandon Flowers will be available.
Although we hope TO will play a full season, we can not count on 1 guy to be healthy all season and if TO goes down we need another WR and because of the depth at WR, I would go 22-WR 28-CB, 2nd round- RB.
That is now. It may change after the combine.
New Mock:
22. Dallas Cowboys (from CLE) – Leodis McElvin, CB, Troy
The last time the Cowboys took a first round pick on a prospect from Troy it turned out pretty well. That prospect with DeMarcus Ware. Leodis McElvin is still sort of an unknown, but any prospect that can run in a sub 4.3 40 will not be unknown for too long. The corners are probably the position that could need the most upgrade.
28. Dallas Cowboys - Mario Manningham, WR, Michigan
Manningham is that big threat, vertical receiver the Cowboys need and more importantly Tony Romo needs Opposite TO. Manningham needs to bulk up some more, and lacks ideal height at 6-0, but he is a playmaker.James Hardy is another possibility.
61. Dallas Cowboys - Jamaal Charles, RB , Texas
Barber needs a friend and he will find one in this home state RB.
“Malcolm Kelly, James Hardy, and Limas Sweed ”
Donny,
I don’t see those guys as first rounders. Big but no faster than 4.5 is not that exciting. It’s not out of the question for all three to go early but they are possession WRs.
The Bills probably want one of these guys opposite Lee Evans. Maybe the Skins or Titans will bite too. Otherwise they all could be available at #22 one or more may still be on the board at #28. Manningham, DeSean Jackson could also grab first round attention.
Everytime I have seen Manningham play he has dropped key passes that changed the course of the game. I was not that impressed. Could be bad timing on my part, because everybody drops a pass at some time. I would be very concerned with Manningham.
If you subscribe to the 2/3s rule based on playtime versus combine, Cason would be a great pick for #28. When I’ve seen him play, he just seems to be everywhere and he makes a lot of plays.
Also, I don’t know if Cason will have great combine numbers. I think that that is the biggest knock on him.
Off season ta-do list
1.Re-up Flo 4yr deal.
2.Re-up Barber & Canty.
3.Trade Bobby Carpenter for a 4th Round pick at best.
4.Sign The best Deep threat Wr not named Roy Williams will conflict with T.O.
5. Sign a veteran nickel back.
6.Draft the best Players Available.
7. Make sure jerry doesn’t trade Valley Ranch for D-Mac.
8.Bring back Campo to coach up Roy maybe he will play harder for the guy that drafted him.
9. Might as well bring Joe Avezzano to coach our special teams because they were very weak this year.
10. Make sure Tony Romo finds a good girl and not one thats using him to keep her dying career alive.Because he is the face of the Dallas Cowboys for the next six years. I don’t want our Qb to continue to be a national joke.
Thats about it for now let me know what you think guys.
birdness,
If that Detroit Free Press story is true about the Lions wanting a low 2nd or high third rounder for Roy Williams, I would be for it on five conditions.
1. Roy doesn’t want to break the bank. If Romo can give up a cap friendly deal, so can everyone else.
2. Detroit doesn’t up their price. Shaun Rodgers is not part of the deal and neither is Marcus Spears. Picks # 22 and #28 are off limits.
3. Roy Williams (#11) agrees not to talk smack before games. No brash talking, just make plays and be a positive influence in the community.
4. Roy #11 should answer any questions about his work ethic and hustle while in Detroit. I would have to be convinced he wanted to pay the price to win in Dallas, because Detriot ain’t Dallas.
5. Pass the physical
Having said all this, I have a hard time believing the Lions would unload him for a low second round pick.
If you could get the Roy Williams and draft another WR in round one, then you are on to something.
You may be able to get him cheaper by just getting him out of Detroit a year early. He does want out.
Scout can you post the link to that story please. If it’s even half true we’ve got to get this guy here.
Fansince72
Lavelle Hawkins
He is an alternative to Manningham in round one.
Hawkins strength is running deep routes. He runs them well, and he gets open. Once he gets open, he uses his really big hands to make the catch. He runs deep routes better than shorter routes.
You might be able to get him late in round two, but it will be close.
Luke,
I’ll look for it.
I don’t feel Kacy Rogers did a particularily good job, infact, I think that line underachieved.
Individually Ratliff met expectations, but who here did not expect more from Spears and Canty? Solid is not what we were hoping for this year from that bunch, especially since Ratliff came on so strong.
The Giants are a great example of strong line play. They had strong play at every position on the Dline.
Also, look where that front seven took them (in spite of that offense). Sickening to think about.
Of course it’s hard to compare the line play since they are 4/3, but still.
On Coaching
Personally, I’d rather see Dennis Thurman come in who has been coaching the Baltimore Ravens secondary the past 4 years than Dave Campo.
Dave Campo is a good choice and would not upset me but Thurman is the candidate I prefer and has Dallas ties.
On Roy Williams SS
I know he still has fans on this site BUT he is done and the Cowboys scouts know it. Trust me. There is no coach who is going to help him. He is done. The problem is his contract. If we trade for Roy Williams for a 2nd or 3rd, we could throw in our Roy Williams for free just to remove his contract. Although Detroit may not want him. Let me also say, the Cowboys scouts know this. Trust me.
Markymark,
Since you asked for a response…
1) A Four year deal for an old LT is risky cap wise.
2) I agree about Barber and Canty.
3) No Way! Carpenter might be struggling but he’s worth more than a forth. If that’s all we could get for him why not keep him, he’s solid on special teams and really he’s only been in the league 2 years he could still make something of himself here in Dallas yet.
4) Total rubbish. Why will WR Roy Williams conflict with TO? Give one shred of evidence for why you think this will happen. Not imaginative theory, some solid answers.
5) Sound idea.
6) Even another Outside Linebacker? This Best Player Available theory can only go so far. So you’re saying if you’re ready to pick at #22 and your top ranked player on your draft board is a tweener OLB and a TE ranked just ahead of the next best player that happens to be a desperately needed CB, you’d take the Linebacker or TE? Crazy. You draft a combination of BPA and Need.
7) Not gonna happen. We have so many people on this blog fallen for this rubbish? Let’s clear this up right now, Jerry Jones will absolutely NOT trade for the #1 pick in the draft. Completely ridiculous.
9) I doubt he’ll be the guy but he couldn’t do a worse job.
10) This one is easily solved. Stop reading and caring about what moronic sensationalist womens magazines and the disgusting celebrity gossip side of Sports networks like ESPN say! Who cares, let it go. I couldn’t care less if Romo dated a Giraffe, just win, and if the team didn’t hang a poo on him that last game he would have won it.
The 8 ) came out as
!?
I’ll take it!
The problem with Turman is that he’s under contract and the Cowboys weren’t allowed to talk to him.
8 CBs in the first round?
Donny, If Roy is as done as you say, and he may be, then he has absolutely no trade value. As been stated the contract kills all potential deals. Even senile Al Davis wont bite on that.
However, I am picking Roy as my comeback player of the year for the Boys. I have no particular love or dislike of him but I do mind when as bad a year as he had he still got alot of blame on here for stuff that wasnt his or could have equally shared with others.
The reason Im picking him is simply because he matches the critera I look for. A once top notch player that got the big contract and didnt put in the time. He was also engaged to a pop star and got caught up in image. I think or at least hope that this year will have a humbling effect on him and he will put in the extra time this off season. Combine this with a better pass rush and another good corner and he might be in better positions to make plays again.
I know its a long shot but it doesnt cost nothing. Does anyone one else see someone on our team having a big year or maybe a big comeback.
Gotta to think about more than the draft or I’ll go crazy by Apr.
Luke,
I could not find it. I read where someone mentioned a story in the Detroit free press that stated what the Lions were asking for, but I couldn’t get an archive on it to see if it actually existed. I don’t know.
This was the first time I saw the rumor linked to a Detriot newspaper, which wouldn’t mean it is absolutely true, either.
Anyway, both of those first rounders are off limits if I’m the GM. I can draft Early Doucet, James Hardy, or Limas Sweed(if wrist heals; he says its only 30% healed).
I think Malcolm Kelly would have to be drafted at #22 if he even gets there. I say he goes before then, but we will see.
Scout:
I have to agree with Joey. I dont’ see 8 CB’s taken in the first round.
I’d say that 5 would be a high.
If there are 8 corners taken then ther are going to be some #1 talent falling deep into the second round.
Personally I’d love if we had Kelly because I got to see him play in high school.
So I’m a bit biased.
Scout,
It’s alright. Thanks for looking anyway. I might have a look for it myself.
Which of those WR’s will be available at #28 though? Any? And do they look like better players than WR Roy Williams? I’d say no. I really feel that we need an impact WR right now and those guys are not definite or gamebreakers.
Sqidlo,
You are wishful thinking on #31 Roy. He takes terrible angles to the ball. Jonathan Hefney, at 5-9 and 185 hits so much harder than him it isn’t even funny. Furthermore, he can cover receivers in man or zone.
I read where scouts said he looked over weight.
He isn’t going to get any faster. His instincts to the football are terrible. He is slow to react to plays, and then he takes terrible angles.
Go back and look at the big obtuse angle he took to Kevin Boss and the ball on that big pass over Reeves at the end of the first half in the playoff game. His angle should have been way more acute. This has been going on for a while now.
How can you play safety when you can’t take the right angles to the ball?
Shaun Alexander went that way. Jeremey Stevens already ran that play, and Amonte Toomer already scored.
It is time to bench him. You could draft a third rounder and start him as a rookie and get better effort and results if Hamlin is still here.
On the McFadden story…
If its true that Miami would really want Barber and the #22 pick for #1….I wouldn’t be horribly against it.
Now I’m totally against trading pick 22 and 28 for him.. but I totally belive that McFadden is going to be a great running back in the NFL. He might be more NFL ready then Peterson. 22 and Barber(Who I love by the way.) for possibly one of the best running backs coming out in a while… I wouldn’t be ridiculously against it.
AIRFORCEBAT and Joey,
New England
Buffalo
Minnesota
Houston (has no 2nd round pick)
Saints
Philadelphia
Washington
Arizona (moving Rolle to safety
New York Giants
Green Bay
Dallas
All these teams have huge needs at cornerback. Now, free agency may change those needs for sure.
If a cornerback comes along and he fits the team’s scheme and they like him, they most likely will jump on him.
Seven, for sure, will go in the first. Porter will go, and Cason will go if he runs good enough.
We’ll see.
Scout:
Couldn’t agree more with you about Roy. I swear to god, in that Giants game Roy just leapt out into the middle of nowhere on that Amani TD. It looked like when your playing Madden and someone just leaps for the hell of it.
None of those guys are as fast as Roy Williams. None of those guys is proven in the NFL. Still if the Lions have to let him go, why not Roy and 2nd for our first?
Scout:
I see what your saying, but those teams need other things too.
7 of any position is alot to go in one round.
“All these teams have huge needs at cornerback”
They have other needs too.
New England LB
Buffalo Big Possesion WR
Minnesota DE
Houston (has no 2nd round pick) RB
Saints LB
Philadelphia DE, LB, WR
Washington DE, DT, WR
Arizona (moving Rolle to safety DE
New York Giants LB
Green Bay I don’t know
Dallas
Yeah,
What the Bat said.
Scout-
I agree with you for the most part but remember there is also Kenny Philips and Reggie Smith both safetys who will most likely go to one of the teams you mentioned. You can reduce your CB list from 8 to 6 and some of those teams also have needs elsewhere. New England, for example, NEEDS a LB.
Birdness-
Where is your info coming from on Roy Williams WR? Remember, many scouts if not most felt Limas Sweed was was a better WR than Roy Williams and Sweed is not my favorite guy. I prefer Kelly or Hardy but I’ll take Sweed.
I hear Hardy will run a 4.4 and Kelly as well.
We’ll see.
Raf
We needs winners not losers.
Hire coaches who hate losing more then their pay checks.
Why are there so many first round WR bust? They think their great walking into the NFL and they get paid before they prove anything.
If Hardy runs a 4.4 at 6′6†220 that’s impressive. But if he does he might not be around at #22.
Roy’s Combine numbers from Wikipedia
4.35 40, 42.5 vertical
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Williams_%28wide_receiver%29
40 Times from NFL Countdown
Limas Sweed 4.50
Malcolm Kelly 4.55
James Hardy 4.60
Sweed couldn’t go in the Senior Bowl. Either he’s still hurt, or believes sitting out most of his senior year projects him high enough. Kelly may improve his time and become the best big WR in this draft. That’s a long way from being Roy Williams. Hardy may be great for jump balls, but can he get separation?
birdness:
Good work..
We need players who can play next year and WR is iffy at best.
When Calvin Johnson can’t make an impact in the league as a rookie, what should we expect from this years draft?
Go get a Corner and a RB who help us win games next year. Draft WR who can grow and be good players next year and beyond.
The Giants Steve Smith didn’t start producing until the end of the season and now he is making clutch plays.
This sucks…
The flipping Giants in the big game. Were talking draft and FA, this sucks.
Dwayne Bowe had a good year, Robert Meachem not so much, Craig Davis didn’t do much but Anthony Gonzalez did okay. That’s 50/50 so who are the decent WRs in the 08 draft class.
Calvin Johnson was a #2 pick, in 2004, Roy Williams fell all the way down to #7. He was drafted behind Larry Fitzgerald. These guys are a different caliber WR and teams had to pay top 10 money to acqure them.
Note Lee Evans, Michael Clayton, Michael Jenkins and Rashuan Woods will also drafted in the 2004 first round - again about 50/50.
Why risk a first round pick on a WR when Matt Millan wants to give away a known commodity?
That enough for me, have a good enough night.
amen charb
almost makes you want to cry
Let’s look at it this way…
Trade MBIII and the #22 to the phins, and provide the Lions with the #1 overall for Roy Williams and their 2nd round pick. Resign Julius, and sign the best available RB.
Birdness,
You left out pick #9 Ted Ginn who I think did nothing either.
boyz4ever:
Thank you for your support..
Charb,
We need good coaches, period. Grantham has produced very good linemen at previous stops and his Colts line was one of the best in the league. He had guys on an expansion team playing at a very high level.
He was not a good coordinator. So what? He was not hired to be a coordinator.
Since you’ve termed Granthan a “loser” I’d like to know why. Prove your slur. Just because you don’t know anything about his coaching skills is no reason to assume everybody else doesn’t either. (And BTW, the guys I’m quoting here know A LOT about d-line play.)
Joey-
You forgot to say you are joking
As far as I’m concerned, anything would be an upgrade over Rodgers and Bowles. Losing them is addition by subtraction. Especially Bowles.