It’s Good to Have Friends — Dom Capers to Interview for LB Coach
Posted: January 29, 2008 @ 10:37 am
Wade Phillips probably knows most of the assistants in the NFL, having coached in the league since the mid-’70s. And he almost surely knows all the assistants who are expert at coaching the 3-4.
It’s not surprising then that Dom Capers, the former Steelers DC and Jaguars and Texans HC is coming to Valley Ranch to interview for the LB coaches spot vacated by Paul Pasqualoni, who left for Miami with two other defensive assistants.
Capers has a long history working with aggressive, blitz-heavy 3-4s, having run Bill Cowhers first playoff contenders in Pittsburgh. He missed the Steelers ‘95 Super Bowl trip, having left for Carolina to take over the expansion Panthers. He did help get Pittsburgh to the ‘94 AFC title game, where they were upset by San Diego.
In Carolina his team signed veteran OLBs Lamar Lathon and Kevin Greene and their blitzing skills helped propel the Panthers to the NFC Championship game in the franchise’s second year of existence. Carolina beat the Triplets Cowboys 26-17 in the divisional round.
Capers later went to Houston and most recently ran the Dolphins defense. If he joins the Cowboys staff, its arguable that Bill Parcells move to Miami has helped upgrade the Dallas defensive staff. I’ve been told new DL coach Todd Grantham is an upgrade over former position coach Kacy Rogers and while Pasqualoni was good, his resume doesn’t match up to Capers’.
We’ll see. The Cowboys have to hire Capers first.
Comments
155 Responses to “It’s Good to Have Friends — Dom Capers to Interview for LB Coach”
First?
I am all for Wade getting guys in who share his philosophy on D. That can only help.
DMN is spinning this as a “writing is on the wall” staff for Wade vs. Garrett. Basically saying that if Wade doesn’t “win now” he will lose his job and Garrett will take over and just re-shuffle this staff to create his own. The key cog in this is Capers. Remember, Redball wanted Capers to be his defensive coordinator if he took the Ravens job.
And let’s hope that the new/candidate defensive coaches are equally adept at evaluating talent. This could really be beneficial during FA and the draft. I like their approach so far.
“Somebody should ban you from trying to use statistics, because you clearly don’t know how”
As an analyst, I use numbers on a dailey basis - Ooooouch that stings!
Dom is a very good coach, but the connection to Garrett is curious.
Clarence Hill is already stirring the pot.
“The funny thing is watch them actually go to the SB next year and then how can Jerry fire Wade? ”
Maybe Jerry buys him out in an anti Al Davis move.
birdness:
Raf and I have battled for years…We both get under each others skin at times…
I don’t know how many CBs get drafted in the first round, I also can’t comprehend how Kenny Phillips could fall out of the first round. With players like Huff and Landry becoming young stars, Jenkins, Talib or Mckelvin over Phillips - no way.
Certainly need is part of the equation, the Pats sign Samuals or they need a #1 CB. We are not in that situation. Hamlin slides to SS and the middle is secure.
I never like trading up, do the Browns trade every year! KP is a player worth reaching for. The only thing holding Phillips back is can he separate himself from the other safetys?
You both seem fairly civil, I usualy fall back on name calling.
I’d be ecstatic with a Capers hire. As a LBs coach, he’s way overqualified, which would be nice to have.
Raf, does Wade know Dick Lebeau? You mentioned that he probably knows evey 3-4 guy in the NFL, but I’m not sure if he’s ever overlapped with the Dick Lebeau zone blitz 3-4 scheme. I’d be curious to know.
It’s official. Dave Campo is back with the Cowboys.
Charb,
Glad you’re not taking this personally and understand I like to mix it up.
But let me take one last crack at this and see if I can’t convince you:
– my sources both worked in personnel. One of them was an outstanding DL coach in his own right and developed some great linemen. If he’s saying Grantham is an upgrade I’ll take his word for it.
Tim,
He hasn’t worked with LeBeau to my knowledge but remember, LeBeau worked with Cincinnati and Pittsburgh primarily. Phillips has been in Houston, Denver and Buffalo.
AFC guys for the last 25 years. They’ve crossed paths many, many times.
Charb + Birdness
Can I do the name calling?
Let me say, that Rafael has it on GREAT authority that Grantham is an upgrade. I wont say how. Although wikipedia is not always correct, take a look there to get some more info.
Capers will be a great hire at LB coach.
Bill Parcells taking our assistants is a grat thing.
This staff is better than last years.
It’s Wade’s second year and I’d surprised if the defense did not become dominant.
You guys can spin this anyway you want but if you take an opposing position to Rafael, you’ll be wrong.
I like the Campo hire and I like the potental Dom Capers hire.
Tex likes the hires as well. There aren’t many Bill Parcells Guys left, and that is a good thing. Loose Bowels and the rest of Tuna’s wandering disciples should have been shown the door last January. Capers would be a coup.
Donny,
I sure like the way things are shaping up as well.
If we get Capers then that would be two former head coaches and a long time defensive coordinator as our basic position coaches.
The only thing is I hope the players respond to this well. The relationship between a coach and his players is one of the most important aspects on a team.
The beauty of the hires is the fact that (hopefully) if we do well, there wouldn’t be a run on our assistant coaches… at least that’s what I hope, kind of like D-coaches in Philly and Tampa. That would give us stability.. Keep my finger crossed..
Fingers that is..
I like Campers as LB coach, and Campo earned his way on defense, but this runs a little close to “Too many cooks ruin the stew” as there are 1 HC & 2 Former HCs as assistants focusing on Defense, plus a potential D vs O schism with an annointed HC in the waiting on Offense.
That said if any of these guys can make individual players play with better technique and there-by up their production it will probably be worth it.
Marcus Spears is a guy who might reap major benefits by developing reliable moves. He has the measurables, perhaps all he needs is a move.
All in all, the secondary was the Cowboys weakness and I don’t believe it ought to have been. Will Campo get R. Williams playing like its 2000 again?
If we hire Capers after Campo, this will be one of the most bizarre staffs ever assembled. Either it will be like putting together an all-star team or its going to blow up in a power struggle.
I sure would love to know what Phillips is thinking about all these. You can definitely make (and many have already made) the argument that things are lining up great for Garrett.
Lets hope its the “all star” team that works to a collaborative fantastic level. Kind of like a “Dream Team” from the early 90s. Not a “Dream Team” from the 2000s….
Maybe we should hire Gregg Williams as well.
Greg Ellis has been selected to the Probowl, replacing Lance briggs. That would be 13 players heading to the probowl for the cowboys.
Greg has had a very good year coming back from a serious injury and missing the first three games and recording 12.5 sacks.
I’m not worried at all about too many head coaches on the staff. Except Garrett, these guys have all been around the block. They’ve had their shot and accept position coach jobs with their eyes wide open. In other words, I think they’re all mature enough to know their place.
To me it’s a sign that they think good things are happening in Dallas and they want to be part of it. Bum is the perfrect HC to let them do their thing and delegate. I don’t know why any of them would take reductions in titles if they didn’t think the team is ready to make a SB run. Dom Capers could have a job tomorrow just about anywhere that runs a 3-4 if he wanted.
BTW, if ego’s were an issue, I think Parcells kids would be the ones I would have worried about.
Another BTW…..on what basis do we think Paul P was such a great LB coach? In my opinion our LB crew has under performed based on their potential.
http://www.tmz.com/tmz_main_video?titleid=1395583455
Romo on stage.
isn’t that the second time tony sings with metal sckool. same song too. first time was with Mr Bellding from saved by the bell.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lrINA2iLD8M
let me guess…the concert was in Cabo?
Did I miss the discussion over wether or not Campo was an upgrade? I never liked the guy much. He didn’t seem to have much fire in him for a defensive coach.
“but if you take an opposing position to Rafael, you’ll be wrong”
Nobody goes %100 at least not for very long. What are we bitching about anyway. At some point are we going to discuss the big game or is it just another lame Superbowl without our Boys?
If the Gmen can get to Brady, they’ll make a game out of this. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Giants RBs frieght train Harrison a couple times. Still Eli going up against that dirty cheating Hoodini’s D doesn’t look good for New York.
slide910 sez:
“I never liked [Campo] much. He didn’t seem to have much fire in him for a defensive coach.”
Exhibit A that “rah-rah” is for the movies, not for the NFL.
Let’s look at Campo as the secondary coach. Now, I’ve talked time and again about the ‘91 team that had a weak secondary and how it got much, much better after ‘92. Here’s proof of what good talent can do:
Campo as DB coach — Cowboys scoring D rank:
‘91 — 17th;
‘92 — 5th;
‘93 — 2nd;
‘94 — 3rd;
Campo as DB coach — passing D rank:
‘91 — 23rd;
‘92 — 5th;
‘93 — 10th;
‘94 — 1st;
Campo as DC — Cowboys scoring D rank:
‘95 — 3rd;
‘96 — 3rd;
‘97 — 13th;
‘98 — 3rd;
‘99 — 5th;
I’ll tell you what, Slide. You find the meanest, screamingest, most Hollywood central-casting type DC you can find and I’ll take Campo’s production. Now, Campo wasn’t perfect. Norv Turner gave him fits and Dennis Green’s Minnesota teams blew his D’s out of the water. But he could stop West Coast offenses like nobody’s business. And his secondaries were always tough, when he had the talent to run them. Will he in Dallas? Well, that’s why we blog…
Raf:
Good points on Campo. I do think he is a good defensive coach. I thought he was a good DC. When he was named Head Coach our team & talent was on the decline in a hurry. Just think back on the talent he had when he was head coach. Bad talent, aging starts and a cap that was in bad (very bad) shape get you 5-11.I think our coaching on our defense has improved a lot in 1 short week.
How much of that secondary credit goes to Campo and how much to a certain non-tackling CB that could cover 1/2 the planet?
Slide910:
Don’t sweat it. I fired up Raf today and he has you in the cross hairs now.
Raf,
So, I should be taking notes because your using stats to make your point?
It was interesting to see TO on NFL Live half an hour ago with Merril Hoge and Schlerith. They usually talk all sorts of smack on him, but today, they were sucking him off big time.
Thanks Turbo,
I didn’t need that image in my head.
birdness,
That All-world cb arrived in ‘95. draw your own conclusions.
Charb,
Stats are fine if you use the right ones and use them in context.
It doesn’t seem to me that Greg Ellis is interested in leaving. Do we still have that vibe?
Im estatic over Campo and Capers. If you dont think Campo has fire look at the old Cowboy highlight tapes from the 90s. Hes either praising or blasting his players, either way there is no denying his fire.
I was following the Saints in the late 80s cause there was no internet and the Cowboys sucked. My Dad is in the oilfield and Saint tickets were every where. Capers is a hell of a coach. He ran the Dome patrol and all of his LBs were starters in the pro bowl.(4) He is a guy that definitely has kick ass Ds when he has the personel.
I think we need to not worry about power struggles. This is a non issue. If the guys want to be top dogs then WIN. The talent is there all they havve to do is produce. How many teams were lining up for our coaches during the playoffs. BP got the press but I promise you other teams were lining for our guys. Its the nature of the Biz. You win and promotions are coming.
Id like to ask that you guys not bring that garbage from the DMN to this site. For those of you not smart enough to figure this out the media’s job is to evoke an emotion, good or bad. Since Cowboy fans are so hyper sensitive, you guys are sitting ducks for low brow chicken little conspiracy they can think of. You take the bait every time. Your almost like idiot savants.
They want controversy for sales and if that gets you off then keep falling for it but dont bring that trash here.
“That All-world cb arrived in ‘95. draw your own conclusions”
The data is insufficient to draw many conclusions other than the Boys D rocked under Campo. Did Sanders get turf toe in 97?
Jevans1729,
That is the way I like it. I expected it. Porter is our Ace. He should be there at #22, and he could be there at #28. It just depends on whether the Dallas Cowboys like Terence Newman’s style of play x 2.
Ridgelake,
Hamlin at SS + a third round pick =
MUCH better than Hamlin + Roy Williams.
Hamlin could be listed at SS and still play a ton of FS or centerfield.
birdness, this is for you.
“Will Campo get Roy Williams playing
like it is 2000 again”?
That ship has sunk. If Dallas honestly thinks they can keep him on the field and win the division next year, they are in la la land.
squidlo:
Not sure if you meant me…but I think I’m the only one that mentioned the DMN site. Sorry to ruffle feathers. I just figured some might want to know how the tabloid types see this stuff.
I also think (or hope) that we fans are smart enough to see through the garbage and such. Maybe not.
I’ll walk gingerly from now on.
Squidlo,
I see your point, but who is the bigger idiot. The idiot who just stands by and does nothing about some their actions which can influence public opinion, or the idiot that ignores them.
Draft Brady Quinn… Is Romo for real?… ect…
That is why we blog, so the establishment is kept honest and held in check.
Football isn’t politics, but Jerry Jones cares about public opinion. I can promise you that much.
Scout,
So you’re saying that some unknown 3rd round safety is MUCH better than Roy? Even taking into consideration there will likely be some drop off in Hamlin moving away from the position he’s proven to be a pro bowler? Obviously Roy has his problems, but come on Scout. You’re smarter than to make such a stupid comment.
You’re effectively saying that an unknown 3rd round safety will be better than any of Roy, Keith Davis, and Pat Watkins. You may want to re-think your comment.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3220516
Campo hiring is a done deal.
eastbay baracus:
Bull, make your comments and post your thoughts. Let the information flow and we can weed through it. Don’t be silenced because someone calls you out.
Squidlo is a solid guy, but your opinion counts too.
“Don’t be silenced because someone calls you out.”
How dare you post such drival - silence I demand it from all!
that and fifty-first!
It appears that campo had designs on returning to dallas for personal reasons and may have even approached the cowboys about it first; if so, they jumped.
i would guess that once campo confirmed with the jaguars that he wanted to go to dallas, they let him out of his contract.
The spin over the recent hires is interesting. WP hasnt hired “his guys.” Thus, this is all an attempt to align red’s staff for the inevitable firing of WP.
Umm, where is the story in that?
As WP’s dad once said, “there are only two types of NFL coaches, those that have been fired, and those that are going to be fired.”
As long as WP wins, he will be welcome in dallas. Those are pretty much the same conditions that every HC in the NFL work under, and wade cant ask for anything better than that.
other than that, he has no say in hires, and red actually has more say???
that seems to be the spin developing (which will take on more steam if capers is hired).
El Toro poo poo.
I doubt seriously that WP has no input, or that he counseled against ANY of these hires and was overruled by JJ in deference to red.
Sure, its no secret that red is on the short list as the future HC. But if JJ really wanted to make him the HC, he would have done it already.
WP gets another year and is the undisputed HC. After that, well we’ll have to look at the results of the 08 season. thats only fair, considering the talent being amassed in dallas.
Classic stuff.
I’ll still let my opinions be known.
BTW, I like that we have brought back Campo. And hopefully Capers, too.
I think it’s funny that we would fret over the “too many cooks in the kitchen” idea about these guys.
First of all they weren’t that great of HC’s and are probably better suited to PC’s or Coordinators. Second, I’m all for bringing in the best and letting them all know there is no room for egos. Talent wins. Period. That goes for players and Coaches.
BTW,
congrats to greg ellis. He is the biggest whiner on the team come off-season, but once the ball is kicked off, he brings it on every play.
my guess, next year, he’s there in a boy’s uniform.
he also through out some love to BP. were you watching julius?
eastbay,
a very stong argument can be made that if capers is hired, all three vacant assistant coach positions will have been seriously upgraded.
Did Ellis get another raise yet?
I see that too, Jarhead.
Also, you won’t find a bigger fan of BP than me. But for this team, some new blood is not a bad thing. Let the Dolphins get their guys and they can build too.
Now comes the draft. How about we get Campo some more talent to coach up in the secondary? And while I don’t necessarily agree that some random 3rd round pick will be better than Roy, I do think that competition brings the best out of guys. Maybe if Roy has a good player pushing him, he will step up his game some.
On a side note, I don’t think Roy is as bad as many think. It’s just that with Reed, Adrian Wilson, and Polomalu (to name a few) the safety position is becoming a more well rounded position and Roy excels in areas where he’ll get less credit vs. if he were making a ton of plays in the passing game.
Hello from Cleveland - Just thought you guys would like to know that the local talk radio guys up here are up in arms about Dallas taking Todd Grantham away. True, Cleveland’s defensive line sucked hardcore this season but look at what he had to work with. Kamerion Wimbley, the only rising star on this defense, credits Grantham with teaching him NFL pass rush techniques.
Also, I think we all need to cool it a little with the defense. In December the Cowboys defense gave up 25 points a game and only gave up 21 in the playoff game. It’s the offense, the brainchild of the “genius” Jason Garrett, that decided to call it a season after the Detroit game on December 9.
The last four games of the season, including the playoff game, really taught me how weak this team is at wide receiver. TO is really the only guy defenses give any respect to. In addition, the offense was unbelievably undisciplined. The offensive penalties at key moments just seemed to get dumber and dumber every game they played. Championship teams don’t beat themselves. They just don’t.
Hopefully the addition of Hudson Houck will add a little discipline to the OL group.
I do agree with everyone on this post about the defensive coaches over all though - they represent an upgrade over last year’s staff.
Roy has to stop going for the knock out and just wrap the guy up. If he works hard on improving his speed, he’ll be fine. Otherwise he’ll be on the bench and then elsewhere.
Sorry, meant to clarify in the second paragraph above - that’s an average of 25 points a game in December.
i believe roy’s confidence is shattered.
whats more, I’m not sure he is really interested in improving. maybe this new number thing is his way of re-committing himself to being a top-tier SS.
he has one more year, then the boys will look to dump him or limit him.
considering the number of in-house FA signings, we cant expect ALL of them to pan out.
i do doubt that roy will be worse next year so any improvement is gravy at this point.
ahh,
bash a mediot post of the day taken to a new level, thanks to the home of several mediots:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0701/gallery.nfl.SBfunnyquestions/content.1.html
Scout
I think you are a little hard on Roy. Any of the corners that we each say we like will help Roy immensely. Roy is, and has always been an in the box safety. We could never play any man to man press coverages because of Reeves.
To Roy’s credit, he has been put in some difficult positions since Woodson retired and has never bitched about it.(Unlike Greg Ellis I might add)Roy is not good in zone coverages whether deep or termediate. He is much better closer to the line of scrimmage and a corner who can cover on the outside will help him.
Im out for now but,
count the number of good plays roy had in 2006 and 2005 (not just picks, or forced TOs, just great tackles that saved first downs, huge hits that fired up the D, etc).
then go back and count them in 2007. i think you’ll find a marked drop off in that number.
birdness:
“Don’t be silenced because someone calls you out.â€
How dare you post such drival - silence I demand it from all!
Funny Stuff…
Is it a full moon? Folks are fired up today.
Every off-season there’s a trade such and suck rant. It snowballs and by the end of summer we all are shocked by what a great camp such and such had. Three years ago it was trade Tnew while he still has value, looks like he has a little more value today. Two years ago it was trade Brady (I may have those reversed), Last year it was trade Carp, trade Sprears. No we’re back to dump on Roy. Maybe it’s time to look at the guys on the other side of the ball. Why did the O stall down the stretch?
I hold back a little and remain reserved on this board. Fact is there’s good content here and I don’t want it to degrade into raw-raw, school yard punk crap I read elsewhere.
We often talk about Defense and offense as if their not part of the same team. The Wade Phillips 3-4 creates pressure and takes advantage of mistakes. Offense give up turnovers and make mistakes a lot more when they are pressing to keep up with the other team. Even bus driver QB can play ok if they are not required to take any risks to win the game.
The Dallas offense did not play well in December or for more then half of the Giants game.
While the Dallas defense did not give up very many big plays or melt down too often over that stretch they did not make as many big plays as they should. This was in large part due to the fact that teams could play a conservative offensive game plan, limit mistakes and still out score the Dallas offense.
Don’t get me wrong, the secondary needs tow upgrade two of the starting five spots. If the offense had been clicking down the stretch teams would have had to take more risk and either our secondary weaknesses would have been exposed or we would have gotten turnovers and won a few games going away.
I have been a huge Roy Williams fan, but he has lost his edge and it did not happen in 2007. He had a very poor 2006 season. Not every big play that he seems to give up is his fault, but part of a safeties job is to cover for the mistake of other players on the defense. He has never been good at that part. Those who are giving him credit for being a good in the box safety are doing so based on two plus year old memories. He has become a poor tackler who is getting too old for the health sacrificing hits he used to deliver. I agree with Scout that Roy Williams (S) improving should not be the game plan for fixing the Cowboy secondary. He should be moved out of the starting lineup like any other below average starter.
Interesting how mediots are spinning the story of how Wade Phillips isn’t picking his guys…
It’s interesting because he hasn’t worked with them, in that they’re right, but I guess that we can all agree that the Defensive Coordinator is his guy, right?
And position coaches respond to the Coordinator and they respond to the HC, right? Well, Stewart worked with Grantham and Capers in Houston so he knows them, they’re his guys and he’s supposed to work with them.
They also know Campo as he’s been coaching in the AFC for the past 5 years.
Roy should be the starting linebacker on nickel and dime packages and replace Keith Davis on special teams. If he really does improve then he should be given the opportunity to earn back some playing time at safety.
I hope he does improve, but as said here often, hope is not a good plan.
B&R is right about the wide receiver position being a huge issue.
I for one think we paid too much for Crayton. He is a solid third receiver who can be shut down by most starting corners and a good number of nickel corners.
A few teams down the stretch put a starting corner on Witten in some formations. This left a bench warmer on Crayton and Hurds and neither one could make other teams regret the lack of respect they were showing our “starting” wide recievers.
We need a quality number two on this offense or we will not reproduce our early season success again this year. I do not know if Detroit is really shopping the other Roy Williams; but if they are then Dallas should pull the trigger if the price is even close to reasonable.
Roy Williams(WR) cannot be covered one on one by most corners in the league and he along with Witten and Owens would create an uncoverable matchups for most secondaries.
When we score points then teams have to take risks to keep up and that is when a preasure defense make big plays that let teams win games going away.
To Scout and all the others on Roy:
I don’t know if you can just take “any” third rounder and throw them in for Roy, but I just don’t buy this, he’s not put in the best position stuff anymore.
Its not the blown coverages that make me mad at him, its the stuff that he USED to do, that he doesn’t any more. What happened to the BIG HITS? I counted ONE big hit this season, and that was on Ryan Grant right up the middle.
This guy who is supposedly an “in the box” safety, throws too many shoulder takles and it seems like regular occurance to see him taking horrible angles.
If run stopping is his niche, then he should be GREAT at it.. but he’s not.
He’s good, but anymore he whiffs and doesn’t wrap up.
Every year people make excuses for him. “Well he’s not put in the right position.” Maybe Darren Woodson was good enough to hide his defincies and when he left people realize.. “Hey this guy can hit, but he’s always out of position.”
He’s a safety, he’s going to have to cover. Thats kind of what safeties do.
Oh and how much longer will it be until he’s suspended for more then one game because of a horse collar tackle?
Its evident he can’t NOT do it.
There is nothing to make me feel like he won’t be gone in a couple of seasons.
Birdness,
“Every off-season there’s a trade such and suck rant….Last year it was trade Carp, trade Sprears. No we’re back to dump on Roy”
The dumping on Roy is not one year’s sour grapes. Lots of blogger noticed the drop off in 2005. Raf was dumping on him last off season, highlighting how bad it could get if Roy lost a step. This year he has not gotten any better and the only reason the complaints have not been louder was that no one other then Fighter could believe we had a 13-3 team.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THEAIRFORCEBAT,
I agree with you.
The reason that Roy William no longer make the huge hits that he used to make with regularity is because he no longer gives up his body indescribably. He used to hit peole a full speed and with such abandon that it was someone else’s body that was going to pay the price.
Starting 2005-06, maybe a bit earlier he realized his mortality and stopped making WOW hits he made in the early years of his career.
If some of you do not believe me go watch any tapes from 2002-03 and you will see that he made one or two WOW!!! hit every game. He knocked Tight Ends and Fullbacks backwards every week. On more then one occasion he blew up the block and the ball carrier. He hit harder then most linebackers. Wide receivers dropped balls because they heard him coming. He would have set the Giants running backs on their rears if he faced them in the playoffs in 2002. In 2008 he gives it a shoulder or worse yet a drag down from behind.
I am not blaming him, some players play the game with a style that is difficult, nigh impossible to keep up for ten years. At age 28 Roy Williams became an older veteran play, yet without the wisdom or savvy to cover for his dismissed ability.
Dallas NEEDS to replace him as the starting safety. I hope his replacement does not come in the form of a third round safety, but if it does we will be better off with the rookie then we would with no change by the end of the regular season.
And just to capitalize my previous comment:
Finished hearing Campo’s interview, he’s replacing Bowles, who was his secondary coach in Cleveland in his first year there.
Defensive Coaches know the people in their trade.
How can Julius Jones have a good to great rookie year and now,everyone is packing his bags, but Roy hasn’t played well in years and people are still make excuses for his play?
Well, at least we have Campo and he could fix Roy.
If you missed it, Campo pointed out that Roy made the Pro Bowl.
Charb:
You know whats funny?
They say that Roy got in because of popularity.. but who the hell is he popular with now?
I’d dare to find a Dallas fan that is a big Roy supporter.
Charb, you beat me to the punch.
“First, he’s in the Pro Bowl, so obviously he’s done some good things. I saw some good things in him years ago and we’ll see if we can progress. I think we can get him playing better than he’s playing”.
Does anyone here think that Roy Williams deserves to be in the Pro Bowl? Roy Williams has to be the most overrated player in the history of the NFL. What a joke. The fans of the NFL would laugh at you if you defended him with, “he’s in the Pro Bowl”.
“We’ll see if we can progress”. “I think we can get him playing better than he’s playing”.
I have no problem with Campo coaching the secondary, but I do have a problem with those statements.
Roy Williams’ effort shows no heart or will to win. When you slide on your knees and give up on the play after taking your usual terrible angle to the football, you should lose your job. It was a divisional playoff game.
When you run up in a divisional playoff game towards the backup tightend and have an opportunity to deliver a big hit and wait for some help to stop the guy on third down, you don’t just run up passively and stick out your arms like you are going to push someone.
During last year’s playoff game, Roy was in the box with the Seahawks backed up. He came on a run blitz and was in perfect position to make a play and force a punt, he went after the fullback. Parcells would be quoted later as saying , “I don’t know what he was thinking”. In the same game, Roy williams let Jeremy Stevens run the exact same play on him after he was already burned one time.
You can’t play safety in this league with all the spread offenses if you can’t cover in man, can’t cover in zone, can’t tackle, can’t take the proper angles to the football, can’t put some good licks on some people, and if you don’t show the will power to fight when someone like Brandon Jacobs knocks you on your butt and stands over you taunting you.
I have defended Roy Williams in the past, but I’m done.
I could absolutely take a second or third round pick, a player like Jonathan Hefney, and get better effort and desire and play out of him.
THEAIRFORCEBAT:
I can’t wait to see the #38 in the stands next year.
scout:
Well said…
Gentlemen
There is a direct correlation between Roy Williams play and the overall situation of the secondary.
Examples: 2003 We sign Newman and the defense is #1 in the league. Roy plays great.
2004 Woodson goes down before he ever plays a game and Roy slumps.
2005 We sign Henry. Roy gets 2.5 sacks and 3 ints which is pretty good.
2006 Henry goes down Roy slumps.
2007 Newman can’t start the season and as soon as he comes back, Henry goes down. Each and every time any of these things happen, Roy is put in the position to play more coverage. That’s not to mention we cut AAron Glenn who was at one time a #1 pick and we play Reeves.
Other than Newman and Henry, our corners are Reeves (7th round pick, Jones (7th riound pick), Ball, (7th round pick), Ogelsby (7th round? or UFA). If your corners can’t cover, your safeties have to.
Give Roy another corner or two that can cover, let’s play some man coverage with some blitzes, and THEN let’s say the guy can’t play.
BTW, without corners that can cover Keith Davis or any other SS is going to be in the exact same position.
Wow, that was really long. Sorry guys.
Chris Cooley, Jeremey Shockey, and L.J. Smith (if he shows up this year)
will all be glad to hear those comments by Campo.
That is just six games.
This is off topic, but i heard on the local sports radio show at lunch today there is a rumor, and im not sure what source they used but the rumor was that JJ might trade draft picks and Marion Barber to Miami for the #1 pick. Has anyone else heard this.
jevans1729:
You seem to have a handle on the resaons for Roy’s declining play. Can you tell me why he can’t tackle and won’t take on ball carriers head up?
Here is my take on the offense.
In the Philadelphia game, Dallas had people open the entire game.
In the Carolina game, Romo would have hung a big number on them if Owens would not have been injured.
The Washington game means nothing to me in terms of the over all year.
The divisional playoff game would have been won, despite turning into the 1986 Giants, if Romo would have gotten the protection in the fourth quarter.
redraider1us:
It was on the Palm Beach Post Blog, it’s a rumor…
Roy has no strengths anymore. If you charted his performance, you would see a steady decline over the last three years. Now, he is a melange of weakness and liability. I always hoped he would turn it around, but he has lost speed, skill, and mojo. At OU, he was always around the ball. You can’t say that anymore.
jevans1729,
We blitzed Roy this year, he wouldn’t even take on the blockers. Later in the year, he just stood there and gave up when he was sent on a blitz. He had zero forced fumbles, zero sacks, and zero tackles for loss.
He got a big contract, he is supposed to at least play well against the run. Some of those long runs we were giving up, were some of Roy’s work.
You could put a couple on Hamlin, but Hamlin gave you a ton in coverage. Roy is supposed to be the ultimate “in the box safety”. He could have bailed Hamlin out on that long TD Ryan Grant had, but he took a bad angle to the ball.
My opinion on Roy began to sour back in the ‘05 season, after the Redskins scored 2 TDs on deep bombs to Santana Moss. Aaron Glenn was covering and had Roy for support. The rest was history. I think it was that season when I began to notice teams going deep to Roy’s side.
Like scout said, the dude’s gotta be able to cover. He certainly isn’t blowing up RBs like he did to Emmitt in Smith’s first year with the Cards.
I don’t know, maybe his confidence has been shaken ever since Moss went deep on him twice.
Maybe the hits did take a toll on Williams. Even if they did, he could at least show some effort on the field in a home playoff game. He could at least attempt a basic tackle.
After the horse-collar which saw him suspended, he looked around like he couldn’t believe they called it.
He broke his own rule for crying out loud.
As far as Roy complaining, he sure didn’t mind pointing the finger at Watkins last year, because I saw him do it more than one time.
Charb
I’m not here trying to make excuses for Roy. What I am saying is there are some other parties to blame in this fiasco we call a secondary, namely Jerry Jones. Look at the rest of them. K. Davis, UFA. Courtney Brown 7th rounder. The star of the show is Pat Watkins who was a 5th round pick. Now that’s not exactly trying to give your secondary a real chance at being good. Hamlin, who can play, gets a one year deal.
BTW, Jerry has done the same thing with the WR position. That’s why we’re all sitting here saying that we need a WR and CB.
Jevans1729,
Keith Davis would give you the effort that Roy Williams is not giving. He would at least give it everything he had.
If I were a pro athlete, three things would stop me from knocking the mouthpiece out of fullbacks on every play…
1. the crushing toll it’s taking on my body
2. my new wife and her effect on the way i view my career and my life as a whole
3. i don’t really like football.
There you go.
RW is a first round bust. Has there ever been, in all you guys’ recollections, a player named to the Pro Bowl more frequently with less cause? Maybe Alstott, maybe the safety who played for Tampa and Denver.
Unless Roy Williams experiences a massive change in his great, comfortable life, he is going to continue to diminish and remain a poor football player.
Trey,
That was a good contribution you made. You should post more.
I’ll bite.
It’s true that Williams doesn’t looks the way in which he used to in his first 2 seasons. It’s true that his tackling lacks pop, that he makes contact in bad angles and how slow he reacts to the ball or to a route change from his assignment.
But he also does his job from time to time, for example the long catch from Ben Watson in the Patriots game, he indeed allowed Watson to get behind him, but that’s a problem that many safeties have to deal with as they’re supposed to do so many things on the field, so what he did was what he was supposed to do, he was supposed to stay at his back eliminating some possible routes, and Brady threw a perfect pass over Watson’s shoulder. No safety in the NFL would have been able to make a play on that ball.
I don’t know the whole story, what I do know is that Williams made the Pro Bowl and popularity wasn’t a factor as two thirds of the votes come from the coaches and players and if he sucks as badly as what we think he does then they wouldn’t vote for him, those guys get to study NFL film, we don’t.
I don’t know if in some of the many plays in which he seems to take bad angles he’s responsible of an area that takes him out of making a play on the ball and that he gets there, even if it’s in a bad angle, is an example of how hard he tries to make a play.
I’m not willing to finish Williams tenure at SS, as I said he really looks bad from time to time, but that he also is able to do his job from time to time is a proof that he can do it, is he capable of doing his job more often? Maybe we will see.
Chandus:
My wife makes an eatable dinner from time to time, but she’s isn’t a good cook.
Pat Kirwan said Roy Williams making the Pro Bowl was laughable.
Hey, you took a shot, that takes guts….
Charb,
You turned into Bizaro.
The coaches didn’t vote for him, I bet. It is the fans and the players that turn it into a popularity contest. If you get some trips, the fans and players keep voting for you.
When Plaxico Burress said before the playoff game that “the backend wasn’t going to hold up and they would be partying in NY Sunday night”, he was talking about #31 and #35.
There is no disputing Roy Williams’ terrible play that has reared its head the last three years. Tiki Barber mentioned the terrible angles he takes to the ball. He is slow to react to the ball and he gets owned by tightends in the open field of a zone. Either you can use your instincts to see the Seahawks are running the same slow develping route on you again or you can’t.
Charb, go back and look at Roy coming face to face with Kevin Boss on third down. He slows down and plays pattycake.
I admire you for your compassion, but if some people showed his type of effort and repeated mistakes, they would be fired.
The Cowboys secondary will always have an out if Roy Williams is on the field.
When you don’t play football with passion, you are done.
The past two years, at the end of the season, Roy Williams has looked horrible.
#97
That was for Charb. My fault Chandus and Charb.
Scout
Well, if you are right and I am wrong, then we are forever doomed. Roy is not going to get cut and Henry has repeatedly said he doesn’t want to play safety. I mean Roy did have over 100 tackles this season.
I read your idea about Hefney in the draft but he is only 5′8″ and everybody is not Bob Sanders. Maybe Hefney is the answer. Who knows?
BTW Burress has a lot of nerve talking about anybody’s secondary.
scout:
What are you talking about?
My point about Roy was that he makes a play or two, but that doesn’t make him a good safety.
I have complained about Roy for years and most of the time I get a ton of people supporting him. Your late to this party.
The problem is that Roy Williams problems are shared by over 50% of the safeties in the League.
People’s been singing praises to Hamlin, he really was a huge upgrade over anything our team has had back there since Woodson, but was he perfect? No, he took bad angles, didn’t wrapped up and tried his luck more times that what would have been advisable.
People’s been singing the praise to Atowge and Bigby about how they should have made the Pro Bowl over Williams, well, I saw Bigby in 4 games and Atogwe in 3, they were in coverage much more that Williams and it shows, teams went to them and they were burned. BTW, Atowge is actually a FS so he wouldn’t be able to make it over Roy.
There’s no sure thing at Safety, there are teams that can hide the shortcomings of their defenders, the Patriots are one example, everyone knows that Harrison, Sanders, Wilson and the LBs have some serious shortcomings, but they’re aiming towards perfection because of their schemes.
I don’t know if Williams is capable of playing better in a more consistent basis, I only know that he’s capable of looking good. If he’s kept who can make the case that a scheme won’t be able to make him look better? I’m not sure and I’m not willing to lose nearly $1M of the current cap space before I get to know.
Chandus
I don’t know if its the scheme or not. I do know that he is required to do more different things on the defense than any other player.
Somebody mentioned the Washington game when Santana Moss caught the two TD passes. On those plays, he was playing free safety. He plays strong safety and linebacker. All I’m saying is that if his different roles are lessened, he has a better chance of succeeding more often. Those roles can only be lessened by having better personnel in the true coverage areas.
Maybe then we can put a corner on a tightend sometimes.
Chandus, Im with you. I dont think Roy played well but I dont think it was as bad as they make it out to be. He seems to get blamed for every thing. Toomers Td was a missed tackle by 2 other guys with Roy coming in too late to do anything. Too bad, Roy was on camera it was his fault.
Point 2, Grants long Td, scout says that Roy could have should have bailed Hamlin out. WTF! Why couldnt Hamilin bail out Roy.
For as bad as Roy played he wasnt the only reason.
Why does Hamlin get a free pass on the Grant play and every other long run right up the middle?
I dont want to defend Roy but if your gonna rip him, get your facts straight.
OK, I’m in.
Yes it may be true that Roy played better when good/healthy players were around him (BTW: the same can be said of most players). The problem here is that no matter how good the players around Roy are, teams know his weakness and they will make pointed efforts to put Roy in those situations and attack him.
If Dallas had 2 Deions along with Ed Reed and Roy Williams, the offenses would try to attack Roy.
Say he’s only in on running downs and playing close to the line - I’d throw on him. In the end, he is the Defense’s Achillies Heel.
…and what makes it worse, I think it’s a moot point to talk about him going away. He makes too much money to be released and other teams can see what we see.
So bench him right? And how exactly does that work? You have Henry making a small bundle. Newman, who will soon be making a large bundle. Hamlin, who hopefully will soon be making a medium bundle, our hopeful new 1st round pick making 1st round money, then this new starting safety - who is an upgrade - and Roy making a metric ton of money…plus some back ups like Keith Davis, Pat Watkins and Jacques Reeves.
I don’t see it. How can you have that much money tied up in the secondary.
Face it folks, unless Kenny Phillips falls and they figure some way to move Roy - it looks like Roy will be our starting Safety again for 1, possibly 2 more years.
Squid:
I agree with you on the Grant run.
I haven’t seen it in a while, but as I recall it at the time, I would swear that I swore at Hamlin for making the major error on that play.
Why did Roy make the Pro Bowl? Popularity?! With who? I dont know of one Cowboy fan(me included) that thought he should have went to the pro bowl.
Do you think Eagles fans voted him in so we couldnt cut him there by letting their TE continue to abuse him? Big problem with that, as you all know Eagle fans are just not that smart!
Hamlin gets a free pass because he gives up a lot less plays then Williams does.
I’m still with you guys on keeping him but it seems as if even his run support is lowering as well.
Squid,
LOL, funny about the Eagle fans.
But yeah although 2/3 of the voting comes from the players and coaches I’m guessing not too many voted for him.
He was the leading vote getter at safety among the fans but dropped way down when the players/coach vote was put in the equation.
Well, it’s true that Hamlin also took a terrible angle on Grant’s run, but he hasn’t been pissing me off for the past three seasons.
I made a comment earlier and it didnt come out right. I in no way am trying to keep people from their opinions. I made a comment about a DMN comment. I think Galloway is Skippy Buttplugs mentor. He makes a living off of bashing JJ and the Cowboys. I cant recall him ever saying anything positive. He says shitty things and stirs up the masses. The controvesy stirs up talk and interest and he keeps his job. I would rather completely ignore him and hope it cost him his job.
I know the Dallas media follow this site by the number of stories and topics they steal. I know what an impact Rafs analysis has had because they went out and hired Breer to do the same. I was just trying to prevent the dumbing down of this blog by quoting the BS that Galloway spreads. We need the regular media for the inside information they seem to get first. I dont see why we need a columnists dumbass opinion.
I have no business defending Roy, he has certainly earned our anger.
Joey2Z’s:
Are you talking about Safety John Lynch?
I can’t say that I’ve watched him play a whole lot, but it seems like when I have seen him, he’s been pretty clutch. He seems like a good player so I’m not sure if he is benefitting from unwarranted media-love?
I think there were some seasons where Larry Allen made it to the Pro Bowl based on reputation, I can’t recall any, though
Hamlin >>>>>> Williams
Williams = Toast + Chump
Jumped the shark.
[Insert Random Cliche]
Seriously.
I am 100% honest when I say that I think based on the last 18 months I personally feel that…
Keith Davis could perform at least as well as Roy Williams. While it is possible that Roy regains some of his previous stature, it is surely not a given.
I’d consider giving him one more season, but we must go ahead and make plans to replace him with a serviceable option for this coming season. That could be moving Hamiln over and adding a FS (maybe the Smith kid that is projecting to be a FS/CB)? Maybe that is drafting 2 CBs and moving Henry to FS and Hamlin to SS. I don’t know, but it’s almost time to cut bait with Roy Willy. One more chance and no guarantees that he keeps that job.
squidlo,
I should have just shut-up. It’s not on you. It’s all good.
squidlo,
I agree with you to an extent. Sometimes we should just ignore the Galloways of the world.
thejoker_18,
You are probably right. The fans had to be the biggest culprit.
Tanard Jackson, a fourth round converted cornerback, and Adrian Wilson were more worthy. Wilson was hurt.
Pro Bowl safeties are really hard to find, but someone had to play better than Williams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIToxYoQgRI
Squidlo,
You are right Williams’ didn’t take one of his notorious bad angles to the football, he just straight up got blocked by one guy. When he was blocked, the play busted open for Grant. The block on Williams opened the huge lane for Grant. Hamlin missed a tackle, but Williams, the “in the box” run stopper, didn’t come through on the play.
The $25 million dollar “in the box” safety was blocked by one guy while the linebacker on his opposite side appeared to be blocked by two guys.
cormanman:
With every comment that I keep reading about how the team could move Hamlin to SS, I’m reminded of the things that Seahawk fans used to say about him and how I saw in this past season that they were kind of right.
Can be good in coverage, but he has a knack for trying to guess and guessing wrong. Is generally a good tackler, but he consistently fails to wrap up and may take a bad angle.
He got few chances to make plays against the run, in many of those plays he missed a tackle or got swallowed by an OLineman.
scout:
I can’t understand the love for A. Wilson, he’s probably the best safety blitzing, that’s one thing, but his coverage hability has holes and he’s not that good against the run, I may even say that in those 2 aspects he’s even worse than Roy.
Good safeties are so rare that the likes of Sammy Knight and Darren Sharper still have jobs, even when it’s been a long time since people stopped considering them any good…
On that Grant run, Ellis is too slow to come over into the running lane and make a play. I left that out. That clip was not clear, and it was tough to see. I couldn’t get it to work on NFL.com.
Lets not crucify the Roy Williams of the past just because the current version is found wanting.
He earned his early Probowls. He has never been great in coverage, but he was average and he was real force and often made game changing plays. He won one or two games a year with some game changing play.
His current probowl is based on the fact that the average fan cannot name a NFC stong Safety other the Taylor, Dawkins and Williams. One of them is hurt and the other is dead, so Roy won by default.
Scout,
Thanks for your comments.
As I live in Oxnard, CA I posted regular camp updates and a couple of threads in the summer of 2005 and 2006. I am looking forward to this years camp as I had serious withdrawls when they camped in San Antonio.
Chandus,
Adrian Wilson may have some weaknesses, but he plays harder than Roy Williams, and he is considered the better player by most experts. I bet he would have put up more fight on that Ryan Grant play. Wilson is a nasty player.
Sqiudlo,
Hamlin gave Dallas Pro Bowl Free Safety coverage. He brings an important skill to the table. Hamlin excelled in the backend. Roy Williams was up at the line where he is supposed to be the ultimate, and he was blocked in the hole with relative ease. For $25 million dollars, he needs to make that play in that big of a game.
Ellis’ slow footspeed (off the edge) over towards the hole didn’t help,