Looking for Corners in All the High Places
Posted: March 25, 2008 @ 9:32 am
Add Iowa CB/S Charles Godfrey to the Cowboys’ prospect list. Godfrey ran times in the 4.3s at Iowa’s pro day. Dallas has Godfrey scheduled for a visit. (scroll down) He’s considered a solid second round pick and had teams like Buffalo, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and Washington eyeing him as well.
He’ll likely be one of the last high-level CB prospects drafted and if this team list is any indication, it appears the run on first and second tier CB prospects will end before the second round is over. In other words, Dallas needs to take a CB with one of its first rounders, trade down into the early second or move up from 61. I think the Cowboys will be disappointed if they sit at 61 and cross their collective fingers.
– Bears looking for a RB?
We keep hearing the McFadden-to-Dallas rumors, most recently courtesy of Peter King. Here’s a scenario that seems a bit more plausable. The Bears are looking closely at both Arkansas running backs, with head coach Lovie Smith lunching with Darren McFadden and Felix Jones yesterday. Incumbent RB Cedric Benson had screws and a plate inserted in his fractured ankle this past December and his rehab appears to be moving too slowly for the Bears’ satisfaction.
The Bears pick 14th, too low for McFadden, who will likely go to Oakland at 4 or the Jets at 6 if no moves are made. That’s also too high for Jones, who is rated in the last third of the first in most mocks.
If Chicago is looking to move down about eight to twelve spots to select Jones, might Dallas contemplate a move up, in order to get one of the top four corners? The points difference between 14 and 22 is 320 points or a late 2nd round pick. If you could move down from 28 and get say, the 37th and Atlanta’s early 4th, would you sacrifice the 61st?
I think the top two CBs, Leodis McKelvin and Dominique Rogers-Cromartie, will be gone by 14 but you would almost guarantee a shot at Mike Jenkins and Aqib Talib. There’s also a fair possibility that one of the top two corners would be there.
Jerry Jones is a gambling man. Chicago might be a willing trade partner. Are you ready to make a deal?
Mock Me Baby
There are some mocks I like and some I can’t stand. This one I like.
Pat Kirwin is a former NFL personnel guy, so he has some very good connections. He has Dallas getting Dominique Rogers-Cromartie and De Sean Jackson at 28.
I love the Rogers-Cromartie selection and would do cartwheels if he were on the board at 22.
I hate the Jackson selection, but am intrigued by the guys he has available when Dallas comes up a second time — Devin Thomas, Mario Manningham, Felix Jones, Jonathan Stewart, Early Doucet.
He also had Brian Brohm going to Green Bay at 30. Just as important, he has Atlanta selecting Glenn Dorsey at 3.
If the real draft breaks down anything like this, Dallas could seriously contemplate trading down from 28 to 34 with Atlanta and getting a top RB there (the points value for that drop is Atlanta’s top-of-the-4th rounder) or just staying at 28 and taking their pick.
I know if Stewart is available at 28, they won’t pass him up for De Sean Jackson.
If this breaks Dallas way and they sign Pacman Jones, they could roll out a nasty set of corners next year.
I must say, Kirwin has a gynormous blind spot which makes me wonder if he dictated this mock over the phone while he was in the car — he does not have Mike Jenkins in his first round. Discuss.
Comments
168 Responses to “Looking for Corners in All the High Places”
First!
The Raiders have spent a lot of money in the free agency and Jamarcus. Do they have any money for a top pick?
ym,
When was the last time any NFL team had to bail on a deal because of money?
1st!
wow that was fast!
That would suck if we had to trade up to get a top 4. I’m still hoping for Pacman so we don’t have to.
The Raiders have drafted high the last couple of year so I don’t think they have a problem paying a high draft choice.
Besides, they have until the start of training camp to make any necessary adjustments.
I’m not a salary cap expert, but if that’s the case, why are we so hesitant on spending big money? Of course, this is the Raider’s problem.
ym,
The training cap issue only regards draft picks and not trades or free agents signing. These transactions count against the cap when they are made.
The Raiders can draft who they’d like and not sign them until just before training camp. Many adjustment can be made to absorb the draftees.
Would love to work out deals with Miami and Atlanta for #22 and #28 to move down for additional 2nd and 3rd round picks.
I thinkd Charles Godfrey, Reggie Smith, Justin King, Tracy Porter and several other second tier corners could be had in the second or third rounds.
I still like Quentin Groves in the 2nd round. If he is there then we should jump on him fast.
What happened to all the talk of the rookie salary cap? The last I heard, both the owners and the players were for it. It seems to be good for everyone but the draftees, who I wouldn’t think had enough power to influence the matter.
I like the idea of drafting a CB/Safety hybrid who may be able to contribute at both positions. I would put Godfrey, Reggie Smith and possibly Brandon Flowers in that category.
This would be in addition to drafting a pure CB like Tracy Porter or Mike Jenkins. Of course if we get Pacman (which I hope we don’t) then a pure CB might not be necessary.
Hey guys the Irvin/Pacman show is coming on in 20mins. Check it out live at this link:
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/espn1033/
Players association is strongly against a rookie cap. Their arguement is that compared to backetball a players career has a higher probability to end with an injury.
They should therefore be given the ability to negotiate the best contract they can get coming out of the box.
what do you guys think of L. Coles from the jets, he wants new deal and is quick; might be a good fit on other side of T.O.
I still cant see how the raiders woudl draft a running back, they just gave money to Fargus and have M. Bush on roster from last year’s draft (2nd round0 D. Rhodes and Lamont Jordan right?
I mean Tampa Bay holds on to QBs, maybe Oakland will hold onto RBs….I just dont see it. Why not take Jake Long if there, help protect your QB from last year’s draft and your running back you have now. Maybe sign Howies boy, Howie and Davis have a great relationship.
I believe that if the Pacman deal happens we can get by with a good second tier/developmental corner. They should be taught to work within the system.
A great pass rush would allow them to do this. That is why I’m so high on Quentin Groves.
I think this is the last year for Greg Ellis. That is, if he’s here this year at all.
Coles showed up to conditioning program today so i think things have quieted down on that front i was very interested in Coles as well a few weeks ago but it seems they either promised to redo his contract or let him walk next year. I seem to remember him just getting lost and disappearing in washington against everybody but us.
Surrounded by Skins,
I strongly agree that the Raider are not likely to draft a RB in the 1st. They have a great deal of money invested in their current RBs. It would be crazy as hell to add another muti-million dollar RB.
But, on the flip side we know big Al is crazy as hell!!!
BTW, L. Coles, NO WAY.
Even if we aquire pac man i would be ecstatic over Jenkins and Godfrey.Get solid players in the pipeline in the 3rd most important and third most expensive position. Then maybe a Backup Rb or Royal in the third.
What station is the Michael Irvin show on? Does anyone have an online link?
Thx sgt…need to refresh before posting
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/player?station=dallas
Roger that fighter…
3 hr interview.
Sounds like Irvin is going to pyschoanalyze PACMAN from birth to present. Should be interesting if nothing else.
HUGE! word.
9ers forfeited a pick for tampering.
Your right fighter…
here’s an article on it:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d807625f4&template=with-video&confirm=true
sgtcowboy,
I can see it now.
Irvin: “so Pacman, let’s begin at the beginning. Tell us about your father…”
LOL!
I am listening to Pacman right now, he has a sad history. It is very sincere tone and when you are talking about family member after family member dying you have to take the guy seriously. He has a troubled life.
what is funny is that the guy that comes off least intelligent is Irving. I love the guy but he is not the sharpest.
Raf,
It’s funny, but that is exactly what he is doing…
I think it puts a new perspective on things. On what exactly makes the man tick and why the things that have happened have happened.
Jerry sign the man. He is ready to play. I would say just about everybody deserves a couple chances in life, this could be that chance that defines who he is as a man, father, and as a elite NFL player.
I believe it would be a huge mistake in not taking a chance on the young troubled DB. He could be the difference of getting to the playoffs and actually winning a playoff game.
the patriots and lions both released information this morning that they are not interested. that might mean a few things. first it may mean that it will be easier to sign pacman because the competition just withdrew. it could also mean that some point in negotiations has scared them away. maybe dallas has offered more draft compensation or a contract that is out of the other teams reach.
Pacman on the Irvin show? Sounds like the PR machine is already in motion; Pacman will be a Cowboy within a week. JJ knows acquiring Ms. Pacman will be a PR nightmare. What better way to mitigate that problem - have one of the most beloved Cowboys interview him.
I have to say though, JJ is a shrewd business man and I think I like this move. Assuming the deal goes through, he would have complete freedom to do whatever he wants with those two 1st round picks - as long as we still get at least one top-notch corner and a 2nd tier CB/S.
I can’t get the radio show. What’s the word?
Any talk on joining the ‘Boys?
me either fighter. would love to here
“if the Pacman deal happens we can get by with a good second tier/developmental corner.”
NO!
If the Pacman deal happens, then the top 3 corners are old, older and one on double secret probation. Jerry has to find a potential starter not a developmental guy. Maybe even a starter and developmental guy.
A good second tier player should do if he is Cason, Flowers, Porter, Godfrey or King.
“Irvin: “so Pacman, let’s begin at the beginning. Tell us about your father…—
Pops met mom while playing a videos,
Irvin: which ones?
You know the ones in the back of the strip club.
“Ms. Pacman will be a PR nightmare. What better way to mitigate that problem - have one of the most beloved Cowboys interview him.”
Yeah, use the PleaMaker
birness
You pointed out this quote:
“if the Pacman deal happens we can get by with a good second tier/developmental corner.â€
To which you said:
“NO!”
Then you said:
“A good second tier player should do if he is Cason, Flowers, Porter, Godfrey or King.”
I believe that’s what the person from the first quote meant…..
I am glad to finally see some discussion of moving up in the draft to obtain one of the four top CB’s. We should have two goals: Super Bowl now and contending for Super Bowls for a long time. Our biggest short term need is CB and it is also critical to contending for a protracted period of time. Newman and Henry are aging and Newman is looking for a really big pay day next year. If New England proves anything, it is that to be successful long term, a team has to be prepared to let good players go and rely on the draft for a stream of replacements. Certainly, NE has consistently refused to sign its top CB’s to big contracts—-Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law and Assante Samuel for example. The market has now made them as expensive as QB’s and you need 2-3 of them, not just one. Therefore, it is critical to find CB talent through the draft and save those huge contracts for other critical positions like pass rushers, LT’s , No.1 WR’s and QB’s.
And PacMan would not change that equation. I am a big supporter of acquiring him but it will be a high risk-high reward situation. Hope is not a plan and we cannot afford to rely on PacMan being successful to meet our CB needs. If he does work out, it gives us enormous flexibility but we cannot depend on that happening. So, we still need to make getting a quality, i.e., starter, CB in the draft. We would have a no. 3 CB if PacMan falls through whether because we don’t sign him or he screws up. It gives us insurance if Newman or Henry is injured. And if PacMan does work, it gives us the ability to let Newman go because of the size of his contract and use the money in other areas.
Since we finally have adequate depth, I believe it is now more important to draft future starters and not solid backups. CB is our most immediate need in that area and we should be focusing on the top 4 players not bargains in the 3rd or 6th rounds. A review of the mocks and player evaluations indicates that none of these 4 is likely to make it to pick no. 22. The following sites show how the 4 CB’s are ranked among all players:
Huddle Scout.com ScoutsInc.
McKelvin 13 13 10
Jenkins 14 5 14
DRC 19 32 24
Talib 20 18 26
And remember two other things: first round CB’s are successful picks 80% of the time AND CB’s always rise in the draft.
Jetsblog.com has done a mock muncher that includes 18 mock drafts which confirms this and shows where each of the four would likely be drafted:
McKelvin 9
Jenkins 13
DRC 15
Talib 18
There is going to be a run on CB’s in the draft and it is clear that if we want one of the top 4 CB’s, and I think we need one, then we need to trade up to the 14-18 picks to be able to ensure that happens. Our no.22 and no. 61 should get us to around nos. 14-15 and our nos. 28 and 61 or 22 and 92 picks should get us to around nos. 17-18. If that gets us Jenkins or DRC (I’m assuming there is no way McKelvin will make it to 14-15), it is a “no brainer†as far as I am concerned. I am less sold on Talib for the 22 plus 61 move but would make the 28 and 61 move if it netted him. This would still allow us to look for someone else falling such as Jonathan Stewart or one of the WR’s or to trade down for higher second round picks.
Getting a starting quality CB would also give us a lot of choices with our secondary for the long term. Getting PacMan and letting Newman go is only one option. Another would be letting Hamlin go, signing Newman, and moving Henry to FS. Or let Williams go, move Hamlin to SS, Henry to FS and so on. Having lots of alternatives is always a good thing and it all starts with drafting a top tier CB so I think we should be ready to trade up if that is what it will take to get one of the top CB’s.
Not to be the contrarian voice all the time, but getting Pacman most certainly assuages the “need” for a 1st round CB.
First, for ‘08 we would have 3 first line starters.
Secondly, we’ve got 2 young corners with a little experience, definite upside, and faith of the coaches.
That’s not to say that getting another prospect in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round would be out of the question, but having 3 front line guys is a position that would hardly scream weakness.
CB would go from obvious 1st priority to fourth or fifth, at best.
have any of you seen this?
“According to a report on ESPN by Ed Werder …, when Jones gave each Cowboys player their tickets to today’s divisional playoff game, he also gave them two tickets to next Sunday’s NFC championship game.
Someone in the Giants organization saw the report, and you better believe that information was passed along to the players.
As Vacchiano points out, Jones’ confidence/arrogance is hardly surprising, but you have to wonder who on the Cowboys leaked the information to the media. Whatever, there’s now another villain in Dallas, and this one is rocking the sweet hairpiece.”
Is there a spy in the mist?
that and now a video of the draft board?
“second tier/developmental corner.”
I took that as Jones, Reeves …
Buster,
Concur with your assessment about Jerry’s PR machine in work.
As much as I hate NE, I like their trend of letting top CB who ask for tons of money walk, and hate guys like crazy Al who throws money at mediocre players, which in turn makes it harder for rest of the teams to sign players. I believe Al is in his last breath and trying to shake up thing to win before he kicks the bucket.
I like to see a salary correction the way is done in stock market once in a while.. I know… a wishful thinking.
“The market has now made them as expensive as QB’s”
I not so sure. What is the market on elite QBs? When if ever are they available?
Elite QBs come from the draft, usually early in the draft - like the first 5 picks.
fighter i would agree with you on all points in the last post.. if we aquire the Adam, then we have three starters!!! the need definatly goes down.
but again i agree with you think we should draft one in the second as an insurance policy if Adam visits another strip club in the fort worth area.
if we were to get stewart with first pick, trade the second first away to get a WR (boldin, CJ, or RW), draft a corner in the second(godfrey, porter, whomever), get red bryant in the third and use our fourth for pacman, i dont think anyone here could or even would complain about that.
For those who can’t hear the show:
Pacman said he wants to be a Cowboy (again). He’s spoken with TO, who told him Dallas is a great city if you can keep your head on straight.
He said he’d love to play with Newman, and learn from him.
He’s very willing to restructure his contract and understands “insurance” clauses will be needed for the team.
They brought up the strip clubs in Dallas. He said you won’t see him in one for the next 3-4 years..
Fighter
This is our opprtunity to butress this team for the near future. besides Qb and lt no other position is close to the money that average cbs are asking for.I feel if Pac works out that will only cover what will soon be two gaping holes in our secondary possiblt three.These picks are not a luxury, they are potentially the foundation of the third most expensive position in the league.Two solid corners would allow us to resign barber canty and Hamlin and give us leverage against t new next year.If we resign To and another stud reciever then Newman will not be with us next year unless he pulls a flo deal.Just say no to wr (especially manningham in the first)
Trading down allows us to have the pick of the second tier CBs, RBs and WRs. A combo of those guys would be a great draft if we were to add Pacman and a stud WR.
Second tier does not portend second rate, rather players with a wart making them slide a bit, but have all the measurables. Nothing wrong with these guys, infact, we have been discussing them here for weeks. Examples are Manningham, Porter, Cason, King, and numerous RBs and WRs.
Hello everyone
This is my first post but I will get to the point. Pac-man would be a great addition to the team but that does not mean a corner in the first round is no longer a necessary. Newmans contract expires this year and Henry is only getting older. Jenkins, Talib, and Flowers could all be available at 22 and they would be a great addition. A cornerback and running back are the biggest holes to fill on the team.
I’d profer that RB, WR, S, and OL would all be higher priorities than CB.
At RB, it’s become clear that even though we’re only looking at a change-of-pace back, a second top-tier back is certainly one of our biggest needs.
At WR, though I’m the most stringent of anti-draft proponents, it’s still a long-term need. What I’m talking about is trading a pick for a proven commodity (85, Roy, Boldin). Lacking that, I’d relent if no other player was available. Though, I wouldn’t be upset if we just stood pat.
S is an obvious concern. Yes, we have 2 Pro Bowlers. However, it is a real possibility that we have neither after next year. If Phillips were to fall to #28 and was rated up there (the leaked “draft board” had him #2, I believe), then he would be a great pick.
Branden Albert, one of the stud OL, or one of the highly rated OT’s would all be higher than a 4th CB.
Trade up, trade down, or BPA the draft. All portend to no 1st round CB, should the draft fall like some are predicting. Me, I think that the NFL.com’s latest is the most likely…and he has 2 of the 4 stud CBs falling to Dallas at #22. DRC was his pick for us. I’d go with that.
I don’t know if anyone has been discussing rounds 3-7 but here is a list of guys. I have only included guys I like and the Rounds I’d consider them. Many will go prior but some should fall. I’ve included guys in the first 2 Rounds but this list is really to look at the 3rd-7th.
Offense
WRs
James Hardy (2nd) I am still big on this guy.
Limas Sweed (2nd) Rafael sold me on Sweed
Mario Mannigham (2nd-3rd) Scouts guy
Andre Caldwell (2nd-3rd)- Speed, Much better than Reche
Donnie Avery (2nd-4rth)- Speed & Production
Malcolm Kelly (2nd-4rth) plays like Michael Irvin who is his idol, knee concerns
Eddie Royal (3rd-6th)- Speed & Return Skills
William Franklin (3rd-5th)- Size, Speed, Skill Combo
Jordy Nelson (3rd-4rth)- Could be a good 4rth guy
Keenan Burton (4rth+) Has the potential to be a 2 if puts together
Marcus Henry (6th-7th)- Hasn’t put it all together but could
JaymarJohnson (7th) Sleeper from Jackson St.
FB
Peyton Hillis (3rd-5th)
Owen Schmitt (3rd-5th)
RB- Look for the guys I left off.
Jonathon Stewart (1rst-2nd)
Chris Johnson (1rst-2nd)
Matt Forte (2nd-3rd)
Ray Rice (2nd-3rd)
Tashard Choice (4rth +)
Kevin Smith (4rth+)
Steve Slaton (4rth+)
Justin Forsett (4rth+)
Allen Patrick (7th)
Chauncey Washington (7th+)
Anthony Arlidge (7th)
QBs
John David Booty (3rd+)- Probably too high for us
Josh Johnson (4rth+) Still too high
Eric Ainge (5th+) I’d consider Ainge at or after the 5th
Anthony Morelli (6th+) Has all the measurables, Needs Coaching,
Paul Smith (6th+) If we go QB, it should be in the 6th or 7th
OT
Barry Richardson (5th+) RT possibility
Kirk Barton (5th+) Very Versatile lineman
OG
Eric Young (3rd+)
Jeremy Zuttah (3rd+)
Shannon Tevaga (5th+)
On the BPA, there is a real chance that a 3-4 DL could be the best player available and would be equally as valuable as a CB, given the “Planet” Theory.
Defense
Hybrids
Quentin Groves (2nd-4th)- I’d consider in late 2nd but probably gone
Jason Jones (3rd+) Could be a nice pickup if he falls past 3rd
Cliff Avril (3rd+) Anthony Spencers buddy
Tommy Blake (5th+) Was once considered Top 10 talent, but lots of problems
Bruce Davis (6th+)
Angelo Craig (6th+)
ILB- Doesnt seem like there will be good value
Beau Bell (4rth+) I would not take him prior to 4rth
Shawn Crable (4rth+) Same
Jon Goff (5th+)
J Leman (6th+)
DE- Probably won’t have good value
Calais Campbell (2nd+) probably gone but could have value if falls
Kendall Langford (4rth+) 3-4 DE type
Dre Moore (4rth+) probably gone
NT- I think we should target Red Bryant. Noticed him prior to last season
Red Bryant (2nd)- I think I was the one to point Bryant out to Rafael
Ahtyba Rubin (3rd+)
Frank Okam (4rth+)
Jason Shirley (6th+)
Henry Smith (6th+)
Some people won’t be happy until we have 5 or 6 top tier CBs on the team. I know it’s a need, but let’s try to keep some perspective.
I want 7-8 DB’s on this team actually.
We have 3 right now maybe 4.
I do not count Roy Williams so we do need 4-5 Dbs.
CBs and/or Safety
Zach Bowman (3rd+)
Jack Ikegwuono (3rd+)
Tyrell Johnson (3rd+)
Quintin Demps (3rd+)
Josh Barret (3rd+)
Terrel Thomas (4rth+)
Orlando Scandrick (4rth+)
Darien Williams (7th)
Just read where Pacman said he wants to pull a “360″ on his life. Hmm wonder what his wonderlic score was
what like the guys opining for a 6th and 7th wr? wr will be done late or in free agency.rb is actually a priority . but rbs are cheap. I agree with donny we need 7-8 solid dbs. everything but a rb is gravy.
everything after those dbs and a rb is gravy is what i meant to type.
OK, we’ve got:
Newman
Henry
Ball
Oglesby
Hamlin
Williams (you must include him)
Watkins
Brown
Pacman
So any CB is going to push one of our bottom dwellers, like Oglesby, but there’s simply not much room besides, unless you give up on our 7th rounders from last year.
Simply too much talent and potential to make this a need pick…assuming Pacman signs.
If we add Pac and you still contend CB is a bigger need than WR, then I don’t know what to think.
WRs take a while to develop. TO is in the last year of his contract and will be 35. We do have Crayton. Then after that, what?
And if we don’t resign TO, the following year what would we have? We’d be forced to pay whatever it takes to get a top W in FA next year.
So many people are fond of pointing out you cabn find WRs and RBs in the mid- to late-rounds. The same thing applies to DBs. Especially if you are looking for your 4th CB.
Some thoughts:
On picking a CB real high:
What do we know of the CBs on the team? We have Newman and let’s hope that he returns to to his old form of not getting seriously injured. Can we count on Henry being healthy for more than 10 games? No. What do we know about Ball? He spent most of the year on the PS ’til the Packers cam sniffing and was signed to the roster, the guy has potential but not that much or he woul have been on the roster from the beginning. And the other guys?
Can we trust that Pacman won’t be getting himself into trouble again? If someone’s willing to bet that he won’t, of fools like you Las Vegas has made most of it’s money…
So, we can trust that we’ll have for the full season one elite CB (Newman), that Henry will go down injured and from there will be slowed down, that Pacman will be expelled from the League by midseason and our team will face another early exit after it has to play Ball and Oglesby in important roles…
Yes, picking another CB real high, even if you have to trade up, is the way to go, I’m not into making some folks in Las Vegas richer…
I’m an advocate for moving up to get a CB if necessary but if Pat Kirwin is correct and DRC and Mike Jenkins would both be available at 22, then that’s a trade up even I wouldn’t make. As Kirwin suggests, we can watch to see if there’s a run on CB early in the draft. If CB’s are falling, something I find hard to believe in an NFL that requires 3 qultiy CBs to combat 4-5 WR spread offenses, then we pick CB at 22. If there is a run on CB’s, however, we should move up. if that gets us a first tier CB.
On the trade up with DeAngelo’s Bears: I brought that up some time ago, they’re also looking at QB and OT, giving them one of the 1st Rounders would give them the ammuntion to pick between Jonathan Stewart, Gosder Cherilus, Felix Jones and Brian Brohm.
It’s certainly a trade that makes sense.
Chandus
Yes if you discount Newman, Pacman and Henry, we would need another CB.
Apply the same analysis at WR. What happens if TO goes down? Oh that’s right, we got a taste of that late last year. And I can’t get that taste out of my mouth.
Unconventional:
Witten, Crayton and Hurd are much more better at picking the slack than whatever that you plan on having at CB…
CB is the biggest need on the team, as an example, last season the team had a formation that was rarely used because of the lack of talent with 4 CBs and Hamlin deep, imagine the Cowboys formation with Ware, Ratliff, Ellis, Spencer and a blitzer rushing with Newman, Henry, Pacman, Jenkins and Hamling doing the coverage…
You would be looking at the League leaders in sacks and a better rush than the one of the Giants.
BTW, I’m not saying that WR isn’t a need, I would try to do Rafael’s trade with Atlanta to pick the best available WR in the high 2nd, I’m just saying that CB is a bigger need, even if Pacman is acquired. The question is: do you want to make a Las Vegas guy richer by betting on Henry being healthier than previous seasons? On Pacman being trouble free? On getting good production from Ball? All that sounds like hope and it isn’t a plan.
UnconventionalWisdom:
“If we add Pac and you still contend CB is a bigger need than WR, then I don’t know what to think.”
I’m with you. We have backups at both WR and CB. We need two CB’s. A starter/backup for nickle that will potentially start in ‘09 and a groomer. Who knows? Ball might surprise.
WR has backups too. Problem is, there is not a starting #2 WR on the team. Is everyone here crazy? I know I am but this is nuts.
The team does not have:
#2 or #3 RB
#3 CB
#2 WR
No backup SS
tell me, which is the biggest need?
or rather, which is going to make the biggest impact getting to the SuperBowl?
To’s injury history is comparable to Henry’s. Witten Crayton and Hurd were NOT able to pick-up the slack last year. We saw that clearly on the field.
Henry, Pac, and Newman would probably be the best threesome at CB in the league. I’m just saying IF you get Pac, you could find your other CB in the 3rd or 4th round. And you certainly would not want to trade UP for a CB to be 4th on the depth chart when you have the glaring holes at RB and WR.
I’m for drafting a WR in round 1. But if we acquire Roy Wlliams, Chad Johnson, or Boldin, I will at least change my position and concede that WR is no longer the biggest need on the team, and maybe we can add one later in the draft.
And if we end up needing another CB next year, we can add one early in the next draft. It doesn’t work that way with a WR b/c they need longer to adapt to the NFL.
Chandus,
“The question is: do you want to make a Las Vegas guy richer by betting on Henry being healthier than previous seasons? On Pacman being trouble free? On getting good production from Ball? All that sounds like hope and it isn’t a plan.”
or the question is: do you Chandus want to bet on Crayton as your #2 WR? On him staying healthy for the year? He always gets hurt. Or T.O. staying healthy? On getting good production as a #2 from beat up Glenn? On Stanback that hasn’t played much WR and would be a #3 at this point at best, all of a sudden being a star? THAT also sounds like a hell of a lot of hope and not a good plan.
Question to you, what really happened to the offense in December?
fact:
Dallas won most of it’s games (if not all) because of it’s explosive offense. T.O. was a large part of that.
Teams started having the FS spy him for double teams when he was in the slot. You can double team Witten and T.O. at the same time. The other receivers we have on this team cannot consistently get open. I for one am hoping for the FA trade, the draft isn’t very inspiring for a WR.
Even if Pac-man is signed CB is still a need. Who knows if he will last. Newman is in the last year of his contract and Henry is getting older. Even if we draft a first round CB and he is the nickel corner. Tom Brady picked the secondary apart last year and so did Eli Manning the first game of the season. If Reeves was the nickel corner last year the guys below him must not be too good.
jcl
TO is in the last year of his contract and is several years older than Henry.
People keep saying CB is a need and it is. But it is less of a need than WR if we get Pacman. How about analyzing our WRs and what happened to us last year when TO was hurt and came back gimpy?
“#2 or #3 RB
#3 CB
#2 WR
No backup SS
tell me, which is the biggest need? ”
#3 CB is the biggest need early in the draft. Ideal pick would be McKelvin, Jenkins or DRC at #22. Talib, Cason, Flowers if only one was left at #22 otherwise one of those guys or Kenny Phillps at #28. Trade up/down into the second could land Porter, Godfrey or King, unlikely to get one of those guys at #61.
The next biggest need is #2 WR - the team rocked when TO was on the field, not so much otherwise. Stanback may be the guy, if not a WR in the first two rounds could be a difference maker.
Draft history shows #2 RB can be had later. Jerry has to do some thinking if a top CB and a top RB are both available at #22. Jerry could hope the top RB slides to #28 because RBs run deep in this draft.
If PacMan’s on the team, I probably would trade down, before trading up. Although DRC at #22 is a no brainer.
“No backup SS”
We have Brown and Watkins. SS will be available in the third round and beyond.
Birdness:
Plus this draft of safeties is ultra weak. I don’t know if there are too many worth second round picks.
Trading up to get one of the top CB’s does not prevent us from selecting a WR with the other first round pick nor does it prevent us from using that pick to trade down and use a second round pick for WR. CB is a better focus because they can likely contribute in year one. WR’s, even really good ones, are much less likely to make a significant first year contribution. In additon, WR’s have a higher bust potential than CB so I opt for CB as our first priority.
torchin:
Please, read again post 63, I said that I would try to acquire a WR high in the 2nd Round in this Draft.
What happened late in the season last year? A lot of things happened, Romo wasn’t playing his best, the Defense started to show their glaring weaknesses, the OLine wasn’t as strong in both aspects of their games and Owens went down.
In the 3rd Giants game what was the biggest factor in the defeat? 3rd CB, OLine, Crayton and the Coaches.
As I said in my post, what happens if Henry goes down like every year? The 4th CB has to play a lot. What happens if Henry goes down and Pacman gets himself into trouble? The 4th and 5th CBs have to play a lot.
I just don’t want another early exit from the Playoffs, you may disagree on the order of my factors, but this is my opinion and it’s shared by a lot of our friends in this Blog, and while I understand your logic, I just like mine better.
“I don’t know if there are too many worth second round picks.”
Some are worth more than seconds, but there should be plenty in the 3rd, 4th and later.
Kenny Phillips was considered a top 5 prospect at the start of the season.
CB/S Reggie Smith still gets mocked into the first round.
Mike Mayock, 3/24 has DaJuan Morgan as his top safety followed by Phillips, Tyrell Johnson (Arkansas State), Thomas DeCoud and Josh Barrett.
I like Josh Barrett 225 lbs, 4.35 forty as a potential Roy Replacement.
Quintin Demps has some wheels.
Zbikowski had a good proday.
Jack Ikegwuonu could be another good CB/S prospect, but he’ll need some time for his ACL recovery.
Zack Bowman 6′ 200 lbs, 4.4 40 was a top CB prospect but he was also nicked. Maybe he will stick at safety.
There are several other big CBs that probably won’t have the wheels to play corner in the NFL.
“while I understand your logic, I just like mine better”
Ever the diplomat
“ILB- Doesnt seem like there will be good value”
DonnyPosner
I really like Spencer Larsen. He’s the Arizona Wildcat’s most active defender. Probably available in the 4-5th range.
Cason’s thier most talented defender.
Chandus,
opinions are like as*h*les, everyone has one and everyone else’s stinks!
Cheers to a great draft and getting Pacman and a FA WR
I think the early 2nd round WR tier could make it.. we have to trade our #28 for Atlanta’s then. Lot’s of time for things to happen until then.. whew..
can’t wait fellas
I’m curious what kind of offers RB Kevin Jones is looking at? As a feature back, he always gets dinged, but sharing with Barber could help to turn his career around.
Just got through watching the 6:00pm EST Sports Center. The Cowboys were on the clock. Mel, Merell Hoge and Mort were in the studio discussing for three minutes. They pretty much argued about McFadden and Felix Jones for three minutes. Pretty useless.
At 9:00am EST tomorrow morning they are on the clock on espn.com fans get yo vote for the pick. Curious to see who they take.
Adam Jones seems like a done deal.
Still need a CB in the first then, lets take it from there. I’m not opposed to trading #28 to get a higher than #61. Raf’s idea. I do LOVE Devin Thomas though and would pull the trigger on 28 if it was me.
Chandus
While I do understand your position, I don’t think we can draft players based on the “what if” scenario. This is football. Any player can have a season ending injury at any time. You can’t say “what if” Pacman backslides? If that’s what JJ thinks, then he shouldn’t sign him. Period. The CB position moves down the priority level significantly if we get Pacman.
I agree with Chandus. Wether we get Adam Jones or not we need to draft a CB with the first pick.
As long as the 4-5 top tier guys are there we have to do it. We’ve all been complaining aobut this secondary for years. Time to do something about it.
jevans, Per your last post, with all the injuries we’ve had in the secondary last year, I think there needs to be more of a back up plan besides Adam Jones. We need to have another guy in line to develop.
jevans1729:
“I can understand your logic, but I like mine better”… Love the quote!
All this talk of draft… man can’t wait!!
I do agree that some players are more prone to injury than others (e.g. Henry), and as they get older it doesn’t get any easier or better. I agree with some of my fellow bloggers here, that we could use at least couple if not 3 CB’s in this draft, especially since we don’t have too many holes/needs this year (thank God). But… If Stewart or DRC are there at 22.. (I don’t know what to do..) too much pressure.. DRC wouldn’t be there at 22, so I’ll pick Stewart and the WR from Michigan State at 22. Move up in 2nd round to pick up a 2nd tier CB.
MeKelvin is going in the top ten. He should be gone by 14 for sure. DRC seems to be falling. Now, I really like him, and I wouldn’t be upset with him if the team went that way at 22 or a trade up with Chicago.
I know Dallas sent two people to tape his pro day. By the way, he had a great pro day in terrible conditions. Cool, windy, muddy… DRC offered to run the 40 agian. I thought this was interesting, because I think he might know he has some people ranked ahead of him.
I think some teams might be scared of DRC tall and slight build and his skinny legs. They worry he will get hurt. The average NFL corner taken in round one is 5-11 194 and runs a 4.45. DRC’s height makes him slimmer, and some teams may fear how he is built. DRC will need to add some weight to his frame.
eams like Arizona and Houston may prefer one of the players who fit the size profile of a first round corner. That would be Talib or Jenkins.
I do think DRC is the most talented CB in this class. He has a chance to be the best CB in 2008, and he is a freak from an athletic standpoint. McKelvin will go ahead of him because of his build and punt return skills. However, McKelvin needs to work on his ball skills, and he is pretty cocky, which can be good or bad. DRC just needs to put on some weight in order to protect himself from injury.
However…
As far as getting a corner is concerned.. I’m not as worried about injuries as I am about Pacman being Pacman.
Unconventional (great song by the way..) I still think that CB is a big need worthy of a first round pick even if we get Pacman. First off its not a lock he’ll become a Cowboy and even if he does I don’t have enough faith in him to be a available for 16 games.
I would love for him to prove me wrong as he is an amazing talent, but you just can’t rely on him. As we all know Newman and Henry are getting older, though Newman’s still getting better. Henry won’t be with us after this or next season and there is a good chance Newman will command more money then we’re willing to spend for a great, but older CB.
If Pacman performs and stays clean he’ll be a great starter. But we still need a solid option at nickel who can match up with the receivers in our division in case an injury takes out a starter. The 22nd pick won’t cost too much and they could be a solid replacement for a Newman/Henry or a dependable nickel guy.
Nobody seems fond of Raf’s Chicago trade, but I would love it. Lock down that position, and with our potent rush our D will take us deep in the playoffs. Really want to get that high 4th rounder too. We’ve hit on that well (besides Skyler) and I’d love to get a playmaker who drafts.
And everybody screaming for a receiver don’t worry! We can still land one with our 28th pick. We might miss on the top 2 or 3 guys, but this is a receiver heavy draft and we’ll land a guy who can play opposite of TO. I also could see the ‘Boys drafting Royal in the second; I know its high, but projections aren’t perfect and you can’t argue with his performance.
We don’t have many needs and we have 4 picks in the first 3…we’ll be just fine.
Scout those are valid concers about DRC, but didn’t his brother get tagged with those same concerns when he came out? He actually had an injury and missed significant time. So given his missed playing time it’s not like he had much more experience than DRC. I just think this falling talk is a smokescreen. He should be the #2 CB.
Sirius (#54)
Pacman scored a 13 on his combine wonderlic, 3 points higher than Assante Samuel.
EdDiE rOyAl… please cowboys… please jerry… i’m telling you, hes the next big non first round player
Captain Comeback
I’m not saying we don’t draft another corner at at all. If DRC drops to you than you can surely take him. But what if Stewart is there too at #22? I think that is the advantage getting Pacman gives you. In that case, I would take Stewart and the corner later. There is nothing to say that taking the corner later gets you some slug or something. RB is definitely an issue considering Barber’s situation.
For my money, I try to trade one of the 1st rounders for a proven WR. If that can’t happen and I can’t get one of the top 3 RBs, than I trade out of the round for more picks later with #28 and draft BPA with #22.
DRC would be the only CB I would even consider drafting in round one, because the opportunity cost would be a franchise runningback like Jonathan Stewart. Stewart looks like a super star waiting to happen, and he can hit it out of the park in a nasty playoff game like we had last year.
I appreciate Barber’s hard and tough play. However, remember when he got in the open field on that long run he had in the playoff game. Stewart probably takes that to the house. The ability to go 80 yards on a handoff would be a nice weapon to add to the offense. It would take some of the grind off Romo.
Jonathan Stewert has pure power, speed, agillity, and great vision. He would fill a need by drafting one player. He is the complete package in one person. He just needs a good back up to spell him and keep him fresh. Getting a franchise back like Stewart would enable you to go after a player like Ben Jarvus Green-Ellis. This guy from Ole Miss is in the mold of Barber. I can find me a Barber type player in rounds 4-6.
Also, I don’t have to draft finesse running backs to help Barber with a dimension that he doesn’t have in his game. Stewart is a complete running back. (He looks like a better prospect than Stephen Jackson, and we all saw how good he can be.) Finally, I can use those 2-4 round picks on other positions of need.
Stewart adds game breaking speed with his power. He will not only run you over (he is built like a tank), he will take it to the house on you and is a threat to break more long runs. He can get the corner with ease. He has nimble feet for such a powerful guy. He isn’t a straight-line at all. Stewart may be the best back in the draft. He is ahead of Mendenhall on some of the boards. Seattle will draft this guy for sure if he is there at # 25. They probably know him better than any team in the draft. He is from Washington.
I know Stewart had some injury issues, but so did Jamal Lewis at Tennessee.
Many star running backs from the BCS conferences get knicked up early in their careers. Lewis had a monster first year and was doing it again his second year, but he was hurt on an awkward tackle on a very long run. Fulmer left him in the game, and he ripped off another long run, but tore a knee ligament doing it. Lewis battled injuries his junior year and left early.
Dallas is going to have to cut some costs. I can find Marion Barber type players in the draft. That is why Detriot probably will not do a Barber for Roy Williams trade. They can get a Barber type player in the later rounds and do it cheap.
Players like Jonathan Stewart are special or elite running backs, and they don’t fall into your laps very oftem. Stewart should be there at #22. Drafting him allows you to let Barber walk in 2009, therefore saving you money.
Players like Terence Newman don’t come along very often. When you get them, you take care of them and lock them up. Newman has another big contract in him for sure.
Newman’s play speaks for itself. He is built for the long haul. Think about how Darrell Green was built. Both guys were not very big, and they were elite players with tremendous speed. Letting him go for a player like Mike Jenkins (who has some agility issues) would be a mistake and a big one.
In my opinion, Jonathan Stewart trumps Jenkins, Talib, Cason, Flowers, Kelly, Sweed, and any other player with some question marks.
Stewart is a top 15-20 player. Taking any of the players listed above over Stewart would be a big mistake, IMHO. If he passes Arizona, he can be had at # 22. The Seattle Seahawks will not let him slip past them. They would get a top 15-20 player at # 25 and steal your bargain.
To all, In case you haven’t noticed I’ve been calling the yellow dot gobbler by his real name Adam Jones. I’m hoping if everybody starts calling him by his real name maybe it will change him a bit and his image. Just hoping.
Smack, DRC is his cousin not bro.
TR2, We want Devin Thomas not Eddie.
j evans, I hear ya. I just think if one of the top 4 CB’s are there we have to them.
Scout, Holy Shit, that was a long post, but a good one. Are you Stewart’s agent? Father? Is injury scares me. I f you remember I was banging the get rid of MB3 drum a month ago. Everybody wanted him here, I just don’t know if we need to spend a first round pick on an RB. Thats going to be a lot coin to pay MB3 and Stewart next year.
I really think after getting Pacman that JJ and WP will draft the BPA at #1.
I agree that Dallas still needs another CB to groom and backup.
If all 4 best CB’s are off the board when we pick #22 we will not necessarily draft a CB there.
If Stewart is available or their target WR, look for Dallas to take him at pick #22.
That would be the best they could do at #22.
#28, if best 4 CB’s are gone? Trade away if they can..
if they can’t.. pick need BPA.
The draft is deep enough in RB’s and CB’s that they don’t have to reach.
smackpat,
Mosley mentioned a medical issue or injury concern on DRC. I took that comment and the fact that Dallas had two people film him at his pro day and the concern of his slight build and came to the conclusion that Mosley probably knows something.
Gil Brandt made a special note about Dallas having two people film DRC and Chris William. We know they like DRC, and the Eagles love Willimas.
Dang, CaptainComeback,very nice and well put. I hope Adam well,especially if he has an star on his helmet.
If Mr Jones is signed, I say hedge your bets and trade out of both 2nds, and get “your guys” on value rather than need. RBs and WRs have plenty of cap cuts on June 1.Spend that money wisely and get a proven weapon.
err trade out of both firsts, and get all value in 2nd.
Also, I would add Kenny Phillips to that list. I would take Stewart (the offensive player) over him too. Starting safties can be found in round two. Plus, Courney Brown has potential and Watkins may see the light.
I see the risk of losing Hamlin, but I am drafting for Romo and Garrett. DRC is the wild card for sure, but he is the only one I see, but that’s just my opinion.
Romo is going to get the blame when we lose, no matter what the real story is. I want him surrounded with elite weapons.
Miami, I think if one of the 4 CB’s are there at 22 we’ve got to take them. But I’m all for trading number 28. Although if my man crush Devin Thomas is still there I’d have to take him. My opinion is he’s going to be a stud. (Steve Smith).
I’ll be amazed if we end up keeping Hamlin and Newman. Just can’t see how we can afford everybody next year. Tough decisions. This is why I was and still am in a way of replacing MB3 his production can be found somewhere else. It seems people are finally coming to realize this.
Captain,
I don’t hate Barber. I just don’t think he is worth franchise back money. I brought it up a long time ago too. Stewart would upgrade the position in terms of youth an potential and save you money for Newman, Canty, and Hamlin.
If DRC is gone or even if he is there, Dallas will have a difficult choice to make, IMO.
Drafting finesse running backs like Felix Jones, Chris Johnson, or Jamal Charles doesn’t really excite me. Barber may be looking for someone else to hit at the star, or he may be run down from behind while those faster backs are standing on the sideline eating sunflower seeds.
A player like Stewart could mean four points on plays Barber can’t finish by taking it to the house.
You can find backs in all the rounds, but getting an elite player like Stewart, who would probably be a top ten pick if he stays in school, can’t be found in round 2.
What was the knock on Julius Jones? He goes down on first contact. I bet some of the finesse backs in this draft have the same problem. Heck, Mayock said that about McFadden.
You will not get this guy down on first contact. I saw some clips of him dragging guys for huge extra chucks of yardage.
If Stewart wasn’t in the PAC TEN, I would have seen more of him and would have been more educated about him. I should have listened to birdness earlier and looked at this guy closer.
Stewart, if he indeed slides to us like I expect, is a huge value pick and a steal.
Scout, I’m going to watch his youtube video again after I post this. I don’t think MB3 is worth franchise back money either. And HELL NO I don’t think we should draft Felix or CJ in the first round. Big mistake. I think we need an RB that can take it to the house too. MB3 should have been gone in that playoff game. Made me sick.
Scout and CaptainComeback, its simple, RB is easier to replace in general.GB and the Giants are good examples of depth. Unless you are sure, and are willing to platoon, trade down, trade down and absorb both player but also cap value. Amen.
scout & smakpat,
DRC only has one kidney
Scout, Stewart is pretty nasty and has an NFL type body. His toe injury scares me though. I might gamble on him though if he is there at 22. Although I want my CB and Devin Thomas at 28.
Does anyone know what MB3’s 40 time was?
My guess is some where around 4.6….Slow Ass Mother F’er.
Franchise back money is only $5 mil/yr. My guess is that MBIII can be had for a $4 mil contract with enough money up front.
It’s a good deal for a Pro Bowl back. And it only costs us an extra $1.5 over his ‘08 cap cost.
But I’ve been driving that Stewart bandwagon and won’t stop the horses til the draft. If he’s gone, then I’m back on the trade out scenario.
As for trading up, Brandt, Reese, and quite a few other reputable pundits have reiterated the tried and true saying…”There’s only two positions you trade up for, QB & DE”. Some at OT, but you get the drift.
Just found it. MB3’s 2 forty times were 4.48 and 4.53. Those times seem to be faster than he runs now. Cut the dreads, Beast.
If we trade out of both 1st and do get Mr. Adam Jones, then:
B. Flowers CB
Rice RB
then, WR and NT (bpa’s) would do well.
I want Adam Jones:
22 Stewart
28 Devin Thomas
61 Next Best CB
or
Adam Jones:
22. One of Top 4 CB’s
28. Devin Thomas
61. CJ or Matt Forte
And Emmitt ran a 4.6. I’ll take him and MBIII over your speed backs anyday. Y’all just being haters, now.
Miami, Thanks for sticking with my Adam Jones theme.
Don’t you think Flowers is a little small?
I’m not sure I love Rice either. I would rather have some speed.
Fighter, Not hating. All I want from my franchise back is when he hits the open field is not to get caught from behind. Ala’ MB3. That’s all. I don’t need 4.35 speed, just don’t get caught from behind. I’ll never forgive Marion. He should have scored.
I like Stewart, he should be a solid pro who has good balance, power and speed; but some here do not fully appreciate what MBIII brings to the table.
MBIII will always lack the speed to score from the other side of the 50, but he has three great assets. On the intangible side he has heart and has a visible impact on the way his teammates play. Football is a game of emotion and the intangibles matter a lot.
On the tangible side is he is a scorer. He has scored more touchdowns then any running back other then L.T. over the last two year. Run defenses get better and most running backs get worse as the ball gets close to the end zone. When MBIII is one on one with a 250lb at the two, he is going to score 9 out of 10 times. That is huge. For every big run a full featured back will add to the totals, MBIII will add two short yardage TD where most running backs send out the field-goal unit.
The third benefit is his power and balance. The Dallas offensive line does not control gaps very well and quick defensive lines almost always get a man to the running back before he gets to the line of scrimmage. MBIII beats that man and almost never loses yards. J. Jones will do well in Seattle, because their blocking scheme is better suited to his running style. To play behind the Cowboys mammoth line a running back better be able to shake off one front seven player on his own.
In addition to these three things he has been healthy and he can block.
MBIII might price himself out of Dallas after the 2008 season, but even if his replacement becomes a top 5 back he will most likely be less effective in the red zone and have more negative plays.